Cropping and Docking

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It is illegal in many areas of the world, and people still own cats there and they get along quite well.

 
Did you ever think that maybe there is a difference in the way we keep cats vs other countries. 
 
[linkhttp://www.harpsie.com/indoor_outdoor_cats.htm]http://www.harpsie.com/indoor_outdoor_cats.htm[/link]
 

It's also partly because of different legal perspectives. In the USA it is common to have leash laws or laws forbidding animals to go outside at all, and/or to restrict the number of animals one person may keep. Not only is this unknown in the UK, but in fact cats have the right to roam freely, and in law a catowner is not liable for any damage resulting from the cat's behaviour.
 
The cultural differences are so entrenched that they even stretch to the differing approaches of shelters in the USA and Europe. In the USA, you are likely to be turned down by a shelter if you admit you plan to allow your cat to go outdoors. However, in the UK in particular, you are likely to be turned down if you admit you plan to keep your cat indoors! However, Cats Protection does not rush to place cats in high traffic areas, and in these instances it will work with potential adopters to find a cat more suited to the indoor lifestyle, for example an older, blind or deaf cat.

 
 

I recall reading somewhere, not sure where, that cropping/docking of dobermans was to reduce the amount of things other dogs or attackers could grab hold of in a dog fight or whatever.

What about making them look meaner?? Look at the pitbulls who have practically no ears left as they've been cropped so short [:@] A pitt/doberman or whatever with big baby floppy ears doesnt look nearly as menacing.

Should owners of overweight dogs be fined or have their dogs removed from their home.

For sure they should! It happened just recently in the UK. I think allowing a dog to get fat/obese is just as abusive as letting a dog become emaciated..

Oh and i would love to see a show Lab do the work it was bred to do,it would fall over with heart failure before it began!Or what about a cocker,it would get tangled in the bushes and brambles in the first 5 minutes with all that hair.American bred cockers arent the true cocker spaniel IMO.

A pitt/doberman or whatever with big baby floppy ears doesnt look nearly as menacing.

Yeah,,I agree here.  Kind of the same with most breeds I think. Those floppy ears make the dog look kind of sweet, and the cropped dog do look alert as people are saying but also mean in certain breeds. I can compare my Bubblegum to my sons Oliver.... Bubby does look more alert...but Ollie looks much sweeter and cuter.
And both Ollie and Bubby came to us without dewclaws on any of their legs. No..they are not from the same breeder.
I also wanted to say that where I work...we do not do docks or crops but we do dew claws. While I have not seen it done...I haven't seen any dogs leave that look like their having pain or anything. But I do see the poor cats after they have been declawed..and it did change my mind that if I ever got a cat... I always thought I would get it declawed...until working and seeing the pain they are in after their surgery.  
Here is my two babies.... as much as Bubby looks pretty.... I love the look of Ollies sweetness with his big floppy ears!
 

I am neither pro or anti docking and cropping. It is a personal choice for the owner. My Dogo is not cropped and has natural ears. The main reason his ears are natural is I did not want him to look "mean". Also the fact that the crop would have cost $350.00 and no vets anywhere near had ever done a Dogo crop had some bearing on our decision.
 
 If you truly want to stop docking and cropping it needs to start in the show ring. Until the show ring is full of undocked, uncropped dogs the practice will continue.
 Also breed standards need to all accept undocked and uncropped dogs. I have not studied any standards but I believe the Dogo standard was changed fairly recently to allow uncropped ears. Until then if you did not crop you did not stand in a show ring, as the crop was part of the standard.
 

if i went to a breeder expecting to pay 2000 dollars with the request to keep it natural and they told me a flat out "no" then i WOULD take my money elsewhere.
if the dogs ARENT going to shown or entered in to competitions then whats the big freakin deal if they have ears and a tail!? its a PET! the only thing that needs to be cutt off a pet is his gonads!
keep the cropping and docking with the show and working dogs, yes. but if its going to be a family companion why would you even enter into a debate about it? its going to be lounging on a sofa with its family... chasing a tennis ball in the park.... going swimming at the lake.... most of these cropped and docked dogs will never see a show ring, so why are they forced to conform to a standard when they're being sold as a pet?

this is one reason why breeders need to have buyers before puppies.

I want to make a few comments: it is advocated that if you are going to breed, then you need to prove your dog is worth breeding by either confirmation or field trials, agility, etc. If the breed of choice has requirements of docking/cropping for confirmation - then the breeder will be docking the tails of the puppies at 2-3 days old. Why? Because you can not evaluate a puppy that young as not being show potential. The ears, depending on the age the breeder crops, may be aimed for the show ring, but then end up with a disqualifying fault after the ears are cropped.

You can't have it both ways. The breeder is being responsible by proving their dogs are worth breeding. That means puppies are going to be at least docked. And depending on the breeder, ears might be negotiable. And if they aren't, then finding another breeder is always an option.

Freedom of choice. That is why we live in America isn't it?

Freedom of choice. That is why we live in America isn't it?

What about the rights of the dog?? They are all born with ears and tails(most),let them be.

I wonder how international show people go showing at crufts etc where docking and cropping is banned?

What about the rights of the dog?? They are all born with ears and tails(most),let them be.

 
Sorry,dogs are property they don't have rights!!!!
 

Firstly, I challenge anyone faced with a serious dobe charging towards them defending their turf to dwell on whether or not it looks scary. [] Yes, it does! Because it's barking and charging at me so fast I can't even see what it's ears are doing or whether it has a tail or not!

Secondly, I'd like to point out how the anti-docking laws came about in this country. The RSPCA had been campaigning for it for 50 years, but it was the vets that made it happen. One by one over the years, they decided they weren't docking dogs anymore. It was cruel, they said, and they didn't want to do it. They would tell you to take your pups to another vet. Eventually, enough had decided they didn't want to do it anymore that they banded together with the RSPCA and managed to convince the law makers of the country that they didn't want it to happen to Australian dogs anymore. The law was passed smoothly and the public has followed willingly. There have been no dodgy home jobs and tailed puppies abound everywhere. It's over and done with and a part of life, now. Dogs don't get docked. It's been about 2 years, I think, maybe more. No further talk about banning owners from doing things to dogs has arisen.

My dog is docked. I didn't decide not to get a corgi just because I was taught docking was sad. She also had a rear dewclaws removed. That was my choice and I did it at my vet's recommendation. It was done when she was desexed.

I've never seen a declawed cat. I have no idea if that's legal in this country or if cat people do it. I've known a lot of cat people and I've never met a declawed cat.

ORIGINAL: Edie

Freedom of choice. That is why we live in America isn't it?

What about the rights of the dog?? They are all born with ears and tails(most),let them be.

I wonder how international show people go showing at crufts etc where docking and cropping is banned?

Be careful, you will be accused of being for "animal rights", which some people really find upsetting....[]  

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I think that some of you need to take a deep breath and go back to your corners.  And stay there.  We've got some personal attacks going on here on MORE than one side.

Freedom of choice. I'll say it again - the choice to dock, crop, declaw - is up to the owner of the animal. If it is done responsibly under the care of a vet - than I say leave that person alone.

I may not like all the things you do, but that doesn't mean I should berate you about your choice. And since we do live in America, we have that choice to be different. And I really don't care what other countries are doing in regards to dock/crop. Just because they do it, doesn't mean that we must follow suit. I will fight to maintain my right to make the choices for my pets. And since they are my property, no they really don't have rights in the sense that you are implying. They are more than well cared for. In fact they get better medical care than I do!

Since this thread is degrading, this is the last I will post to it. Neither side will ever agree, but I will stand by my position that it is up to the individual owner to decide whether they dock/crop.

Edited as respond to post was removed.