Online Communities = Support vs. Enabling

rwbeagles

This post was moved because it pertains directly to this community, stemming from a situation that should have been between a member and an Admin. 

This post has absolutely nothing to do with moderating or this particular community.  This post is about the general behavior seen on all public bulletin boards and the line between support and enabling behavior.  Not by moderators, but by the members of that board.

The post may have originated due to frustrations from a certain thread that happened within this community, but my original comments were completely basic and based on my experiences EVERYWHERE over the last 15 or so years online.  And yes, the same behavior is also seen IRL, but you do not have the mob mentality that is seen in online communities.

In all honesty, if someone asks for your help regarding a situation that is one thing. I've had to say this more then once in the past and I guess it bears repeating.

When someone writes about their spouse/significant other it is considered "venting/complaining". When you write about them it is considered attacking/name calling behavior.

Reality is something that some people don't recognize in their situation. Sometimes when we suggest what we would do it can be hurtful. There is also the possibility that "we" don't really know what the life is off of the computer screen.

erica1989

I'd rather be offended and find a way to FIX the problem, rather than have everyone skirt around the truth to 'make me feel better'.

I'd put forth...that is great, for you. I am not you...she is not me...and him over there is not anyone but himself. By definition a forum is a group...of many different individuals. It is not really like a close circle of friends in most cases, and certainly not in this case. Some of us are close...even family..others are not close...some would describe one another in most unkind terms, even.

Let's use this example. A woman has been eating a lot lately...she's stressed out. She goes to visit her Mom and she says "honey you need to cut down, your behind is growing!"...fine and dandy...they laugh about it, and she and her Mom have a good talk about what is stressing her out. She decides to make a plan of action and lose weight.

This same woman (and the above never happened)...goes to work...and the guy the next cube over says "Hey Penelope...have you been eating more? You look a lot bigger than you used to". Do you think because Penelope is a woman that "would rather be offended and just fix the problem" she would welcome this frank, realistic, honest appraisal of her body? Do you think her and the co workers BOSS....upon hearing that, should allow that sort of commentary to continue? Do you think that JUST because Penelope might find this critisicm "helpful" in that she is in essence SHAMED into eating less...that it okay that he said it and he should not be spoken to by his boss?

There are rules here, like everywhere in life...and there are myriad ways, to say the same thing. If you choose a method of saying something that causes offense, hurt, anger, that violates a rule...that is on no one but you...and you alone bear the brunt of whatever disciplinary action results.

If you are in a room of strangers and mere acquaintences...I would think you have a different way of communicating than you do amongst your family, bosom friends, etc. That is all the rules are...reminders that this forum is NOT comprised solely of people who know you, know what you're like, know how you like to be spoken to and advised. Nothing more, nothing less.

amstaffy

When someone writes about their spouse/significant other it is considered "venting/complaining". When you write about them it is considered attacking/name calling behavior.

Reality is something that some people don't recognize in their situation. Sometimes when we suggest what we would do it can be hurtful. There is also the possibility that "we" don't really know what the life is off of the computer screen.

If this is the case, then I feel that the NDR forum should just be removed completely and members should keep to strictly dog-related subjects.  One of my horse forums has that rule -- no personal topics allowed.

If people don't want to hear other people's opinions about people or situations in their lives, then they shouldn't talk about them.  Period.  ESPECIALLY on an online forum that is open to the world.

I feel that a fairly thick skin is required to partake in an online community.  There are thousands of different personalities out there and not all of them will agree and some of them will clash.  If you are going to go off crying in the corner because someone online offends you, then you need to look within yourself to see why this bothers you so much.  I don't give a fig if someone I've never met disagrees with me or doesn't like my dog (heaven forbid!).  It's not going to change my life.  You can't take online communities so seriously.

rwbeagles

Penelope is a woman that "would rather be offended and just fix the problem" she would welcome this frank, realistic, honest appraisal of her body?

Well obviously there are tasteful ways to go about such things. Blunt, frank opinons are one thing - but helpful suggestions targeted at a specific goal are another. I never said I prefer to be insulted or anything along those lines, but I wouldn't want someone to lie to me to make me feel better about a situation. When people come looking for help - they should be prepared for all kinds of suggestions, not just the ones they want to hear, esp. on a public forum. Not everyone is going to agree on all topics - but that's a risk you take by opening up a topic of discussion.

erica1989

I never said I prefer to be insulted or anything along those lines, but I wouldn't want someone to lie to me to make me feel better

I completely agree lying is not helpful...but neither is rudeness.

Going general again, that is the very crux of this thread, for me. It is never okay to be rude, on this forum...it doesn't matter who you are or what you think about the person you are responding to. Or what you think about their families. 

Other forums? If they want to fling doo doo at one another all day long and call it "theraputic" lol...go for it. But don't bring that doo doo, here. Dr. Phil...can stay if he can follow the rules, otherwise..he'd get edited too.

Gina, could you please respond to my post at the very top of this page (page 2) regarding the placement of this post?  I still feel that it was put in this forum to "hide" it and I don't feel that is appropriate.  This is a topic which has and could garner interesting discussion and I do not feel that it belongs in this forum.  It is not about the operations of the Dog.com community, but of the general behavior of online communities and the members within.

KarissaKS

I feel there is a fine line between online communities offering support to their members vs. enabling bad decisions/choices/behavior.

You see it everywhere -- certain posters rally around the person having the "problem" and viciously attack anyone who might step in to point out anything negative (even though said negative thing may be true or based on things that a poster has written in the past).  True "mama bear" syndrome.

Enabling someone to continue their bad behaviors or choices doesn't help them.

Totally true, a couple years back there was a member in this forum that was thinking about putting her dog to sleep because it was too aggressive with the other house dogs.

The pity vote came over and over, offering "comfort" and "support" because of her decision. Me and a couple other members called her out by what she was: a hoarder. Picking up dogs from the street over and over again while she was not having the resources or experience to take care properly of these dogs. She kept bringing new dogs while still having the aggressive dog at home and instead on working the issues of the aggressive dog she just kept getting new ones.

All her other threads in the NDR forum were about her being lonely, depressed, without friends, etc. Even when that was unfortunate it was just another indication that she was not in the best position to deal with all these dogs. She was getting all these dogs for the wrong reasons and she was hurting them more than helping them. She ended putting the dog to sleep (she already had one down before)

The point is that some people decide to go "the easy way" and put their dogs to sleep for their lack of experience or just pure ignorance of not knowing how to deal with the problem. They come out with the "quality of the dog's life" card. A quality that the owner didnt know or didnt want to provide. Most forum members enable this ignorance and stupidity by offering comfort to the ignorant owner.

If the owner does not want to hear opposite views then i would advise them to discuss their bad decisions in their facebook page where he/she can be sure that only comfort will be offered

erica1989

so they don't offend anyone.

I find very few people on this board take offense at all. I didn't really see it in the thread under discussion. The OP didn't seem overly upset. I think she even said she agreed in part. I sometimes feel the mods step in a little to quickly. Unless someone lets it be know that they feel offended then it is often better IMO to let it work itself out. Usually less hard feelings and definitely less drama. There used to be a lot more debate on this board. We're a lot more politically correct now!  

I responded to your question, under Truley's post. If you do not agree then that is your right. Do remember that an Admin has reviewed the thread as well as any moves made.

This sub-forum is not hidden...it is in the main listing...and any post here resides in the NOT READ portion of your homepage just like every other post made on the forum. When it is active...it is bumped to the ACTIVE area of your homepage. You also have the option of subscribing to any post you like in order to be notified when a post is made...tho this has some bugs as I understand.

This is actually a better way to spotlight your post since it has no competition in this forum...vs NDR where it might be off the front page inside a 3 hours span.

Not every forum can be up top on the homepage...heck NDR is a ways down...that is why the sidebar navigation is such a useful tool...and why I use it so much.

denise m

There used to be a lot more debate on this board. We're a lot more politically correct now!  

Perhaps that comes with being tied to a large company that would like to keep a good public image? There are certainly other places where that is not the case.  In fact I seem to remember a post of yours aboutyour experience in the "jungles" out there.

It's almost like we can't win either way

espencer

KarissaKS

I feel there is a fine line between online communities offering support to their members vs. enabling bad decisions/choices/behavior.

You see it everywhere -- certain posters rally around the person having the "problem" and viciously attack anyone who might step in to point out anything negative (even though said negative thing may be true or based on things that a poster has written in the past).  True "mama bear" syndrome.

Enabling someone to continue their bad behaviors or choices doesn't help them.

Totally true, a couple years back there was a member in this forum that was thinking about putting her dog to sleep because it was too aggressive with the other house dogs.

The pity vote came over and over, offering "comfort" and "support" because of her decision. Me and a couple other members called her out by what she was: a hoarder. Picking up dogs from the street over and over again while she was not having the resources or experience to take care properly of these dogs. She kept bringing new dogs while still having the aggressive dog at home and instead on working the issues of the aggressive dog she just kept getting new ones.

All her other threads in the NDR forum were about her being lonely, depressed, without friends, etc. Even when that was unfortunate it was just another indication that she was not in the best position to deal with all these dogs. She was getting all these dogs for the wrong reasons and she was hurting them more than helping them. She ended putting the dog to sleep (she already had one down before)

espencer, I believe I know what you are referring to and in some ways I completely agree, but this is also a good example where I kept my mouth shut, simply did not participate in those threads/discussions other than to say what *I* would do with the given information.  So it may look like most people agree and are defending the person, I bet there are a lot that don't but just choose to keep their mouths shut.

The horse forum I mentioned in a previous post is the Chronicle of the Horse forum -- one of the most popular horse forums on the internet.  They are tied to a large publication and this was their reason for not allowing posts that are non-horse-related.  When you get THAT many people in one place discussing politics or personal issues, things can get a little out of hand.  They have a hard enough time moderating horse-related posts sometimes -- but nor do they step in and remove content or suspend users any time someone's toes might be stepped on.  Users are expected to be able to withstand a bit of criticism.

So again, if this is how the Dog.com people feel and they don't want to allow for any discussion that could rile the troops, then maybe this place needs to remove the NDR forum and keep things strictly dog-related.

I belong to another horse board that does allow for off-topic discussions and that part of the board is by far the most active.  Sometimes people get offended -- if someone goes way out of line -- and I do mean WAY out of line -- they will get suspended.  I just think that the mods here are a bit quick on the trigger sometimes.  We are not a bunch of five year olds here -- we should be able to handle our differences on our own.

KarissaKS

If this is the case, then I feel that the NDR forum should just be removed completely and members should keep to strictly dog-related subjects.  One of my horse forums has that rule -- no personal topics allowed.

If people don't want to hear other people's opinions about people or situations in their lives, then they shouldn't talk about them.  Period.  ESPECIALLY on an online forum that is open to the world.

I feel that a fairly thick skin is required to partake in an online community.  There are thousands of different personalities out there and not all of them will agree and some of them will clash.  If you are going to go off crying in the corner because someone online offends you, then you need to look within yourself to see why this bothers you so much.  I don't give a fig if someone I've never met disagrees with me or doesn't like my dog (heaven forbid!).  It's not going to change my life.  You can't take online communities so seriously.

It's nice to know how you feel but where this forum is concerned there are specific rules. Maybe on other forums you partake in a thick skin is needed. This forum has always ruled on this being a fun place for like minded people.

We do take our members and their comfort levels here seriously and will continue to inforce the rules as needed

KarissaKS

So again, if this is how the Dog.com people feel and they don't want to allow for any discussion that could rile the troops, then maybe this place needs to remove the NDR forum and keep things strictly dog-related.

I'm sure you're input has been noted by the folks in charge, because I certainly am not one LOL. What they want...is clearly posted in the Rules...and I personally...don't think it's anything majorly soulcrushing that they ask?