Do we have a double standard here?!

I'm not sure we have a double standard.  To be honest, when I read the original post, I saw "adopted", and it was only after stardog's post, and Gina's request, that I thought perhaps the dog may have come from a puppy mill, or at least a backyard breeder.  I have no problem with trying to educate someone, but in this case, by the time I returned to the thread there was a mod note.  For the record, I do not support getting puppies from such sources, but I do understand how someone might accidentally do so by following a word of mouth recommendation from a co-worker.  I would certainly have researched further, but some people are trusting.  This just serves to show, yet again, what we are up against when it comes to truly educating the public.  I was a bit distressed that the OP did not acknowledge that she may have gotten her pup from a not-so-hot source.  Hanging around here for so long, you would think she'd at least have owned up to making an error, if the place is a mill.  But, once a person has their dog, they should then love it and care for it the best way they can.  Hopefully, that will be the case here, and this thread might, if we adopt the right spirit about it, convince her to re-examine what she did and be more careful the next time. 

I don't like the double standard either, which is why I typically stay out of such threads and keep my mouth shut.  I've seen the same arguments on the German Shepherd board.  People go to pet stores, puppy mills, and BYBs to buy their dog and they justify it by saying they "rescued" the dog from the puppy mill.  Everyone posts about how cute the dog is and yadda yadda while most of the members keep their mouths shut. Just the other day in one thread someone was posting a dog that was probably put to sleep this morning that just needed a home, someone else had already volunteered to pay for ALL expenses including air fare for the dog, and then in another section is a member insisting on going to the pet shop to spend $1000 on a dog. 

I don't think new owners are completely off the hook either.  Their are some breeders that do a very good job of disguising their puppy mill-like practices (I did two years of research before actively looking for a dog and *I* almost got sucked in by one), but other than that, I would hope that anyone considering adding a dog would have the sense to consider different options and ask for other people's advice first. 

But in general, I'm not one to give unsolicited advice.  It seems to me that people who have to justify what they do already know deep down it was probably not the best decision.

Liesje

I don't like the double standard either, which is why I typically stay out of such threads and keep my mouth shut.  I've seen the same arguments on the German Shepherd board.  People go to pet stores, puppy mills, and BYBs to buy their dog and they justify it by saying they "rescued" the dog from the puppy mill.  Everyone posts about how cute the dog is and yadda yadda while most of the members keep their mouths shut. Just the other day in one thread someone was posting a dog that was probably put to sleep this morning that just needed a home, someone else had already volunteered to pay for ALL expenses including air fare for the dog, and then in another section is a member insisting on going to the pet shop to spend $1000 on a dog. 

I don't think new owners are completely off the hook either.  Their are some breeders that do a very good job of disguising their puppy mill-like practices (I did two years of research before actively looking for a dog and *I* almost got sucked in by one), but other than that, I would hope that anyone considering adding a dog would have the sense to consider different options and ask for other people's advice first. 

But in general, I'm not one to give unsolicited advice.  It seems to me that people who have to justify what they do already know deep down it was probably not the best decision.

I've found, in my personal life, that I feel better registering my non-approval without getting shrill rather than just saying nothing at all. I think that silence does equal tacit approval in the eyes of others. When a friend of mine rehomed her cat (to her mom, in the end, which was a fine outcome, but at the time she was just asking me if I knew of anyone at all who wanted a cat) because they'd just had a baby and wanted to move to a nicer apartment that didn't allow pets, I just told her, "I just want you to know that I am not okay with that and I don't really feel the need to make it easier for you to do something that I don't approve of."  I felt that I'd made my feelings known but in a way that wouldn't end our friendship (though at the time I did sort of feel like, why is this person my friend? and we haven't been as close since because nothing bothers me more than people who have kids and then their pets get shoved out the door).

So I think it's better to just say, "I am not okay with what you just did." than to say nothing. The person can take or leave whether they care about you not being okay with it. But at least you have registered your disapproval instead of tacitly approving through silence.

houndlove

because nothing bothers me more than people who have kids and then their pets get shoved out the door

Funny, I am going through this same thing with a friend of mine.  She hasn't had the dog long and she knew she was going to be planning on a pregnancy at the time she got it, so the whole thing has really irritated me.  When she told me, circumstances were such that it wasn't really the time or place to discuss it with her and tell her my feelings, but I haven't rung her since because that's a BIG thing for us not to have in common, to me.  

There's a fine balance between not saying anything, saying something the right way, and saying something the wrong way.  Each have different outcomes, and no one gets that choice right all of the time.   

ottoluv

The thing is though if you say nothing, it's kinda like saying it's ok. You have to assume that there are lurkers or others who may do the same thing if nothing is said. No one wants to give "unsolicited" advice, but I think everyone really does want for there to be an end to puppy mills. It's about balance, sometimes you need to say something that isn't necessarily popular to prevent future "events". Turning a blind eye is the same as saying it's ok IMO.

Yeah you are right, I just hate to be the first one to say it, especially considering the circumstances here (the recent death of the other dog).  Do you say it in the new dog thread? PM the person? Start a new thread about where to get a dog and hope they catch on?  I dunno.... I just wish people asked for advice and references before going ahead and getting puppies.  I looked at the breeder's website (with regard to this particular incident) and there were several red flags for me, and I by no means consider myself an expert, plus I know very little about those breeds.  Maybe people truly ARE being duped by these "breeders".  What can you do after the fact?

Benedict

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There's a fine balance between not saying anything, saying something the right way, and saying something the wrong way.  Each have different outcomes, and no one gets that choice right all of the time.   

IN RESPONSE TO ORIGINAL POST/TOPIC OF THREAD:

"Popularity" and "wisdom" prevails in any societal structure. All though many may find it not fair; it makes sense to give "leeway" to recognized members of the forum. "Seniority" has been happening since the dawn of time.

When it comes to adoption/purchasing a dog I would hope more experience members of the forum can help aid the fight in stopping puppy mills, back-yard-breeders, and accident litters. If they don't, it can't be expected that they "support" this cause.

When it comes to nutrition, that is really only a matter of opinion of health. As humans we have no "standard" way we're supose to eat; all though there are many variety of suggestions. Same thing goes for dogs.

Admin warning....again, please stick to the original topic, which was do we treat newbies differently than long time members, and adhere to the OP's request NOT to make it personal.   If you wish to discuss puppy mills, please start a new and appropriately labeled thread.

Benedict

Admin warning....again, please stick to the original topic, which was do we treat newbies differently than long time members, and adhere to the OP's request NOT to make it personal.   If you wish to discuss puppy mills, please start a new and appropriately labeled thread.

The original topic was about buying a puppy from a non reputable place then giving members leeway for doing so

If you can explain how it was off topic I'll comply

stardog85

It seems as though we give our long time members extra leeway when it comes to decisions about bringing a new dog home when newbies to the board immediately get bashed for a mistake.  In my eye it should really be the other way around: newbies don't know any better, but a long time member will know all the points about choosing a good breeder (or keeping a dog inside, or feeding a nutritious food, etc. for that matter) and thus when they choose otherwise are disregarding a lot of what they've learned in favor of a cute face.  Granted it doesn't happen often, but when it does, it really makes me think.

Yes this post was sparked by another but I don't want it to get personal, just a good discussion of if, or why, we have a rather twisted double standard when it comes to people making choices we may consider less than ideal.
 

This was the original topic.  Treating new members differently from old in this way.  Not discussing a specific other thread. 

Yay I'm so happy to see the majority of this thread is really doing what i hoped: getting dialogue going about the whole issue!

 So, if we all agree that silence implies "agreement" in some manner, how do we go about pointing something out without everything turning into a flame war?  I posted twice to the thread we mentioned and the second triggered a post I would consider rather flame-like and thus spurred a reaction from the OP I was hoping to avoid.

I tend to think that what we "say" should be public rather than by PM so that lurkers get the same info and so that hopefully the OP doesn't get a deluge of PMs on the same topic, but what do all of you think?  How to we balance education with disagreement in a public forum?

stardog85

Yay I'm so happy to see the majority of this thread is really doing what i hoped: getting dialogue going about the whole issue!

 So, if we all agree that silence implies "agreement" in some manner, how do we go about pointing something out without everything turning into a flame war?  I posted twice to the thread we mentioned and the second triggered a post I would consider rather flame-like and thus spurred a reaction from the OP I was hoping to avoid.

I tend to think that what we "say" should be public rather than by PM so that lurkers get the same info and so that hopefully the OP doesn't get a deluge of PMs on the same topic, but what do all of you think?  How to we balance education with disagreement in a public forum?

I have the same questions as you.  It's easier when a person posts for advice, whether it be a newbie or a long standing member.  What's difficult is how to say something after the fact.  You don't want to drive newbies away, and you don't want to insult people that have become like friends...What is really gained by voicing disapproval after the fact?  If it's only the lurkers we are then concerned about, maybe there is a better way to reach out to them?  Maybe we just need some sticky threads or a sub-forum about getting a new dog.