So what do we want here?

It's very understandable to get cheesed-off for being told what choices you should make.

Just like it's understandable to get cheesed-off about being told what to say.

It's not always what we say - it's how we say it. There's criticism, and there's *constructive* criticism. One is negative and only deals with what's wrong. The other is positive and acknowledges what's wrong, but focuses on how to make things better.

I get cheesed-off all the time when I see things I think are stupid. But over the years I've learned to make a conscious decision to do or say only what will make things better. I'm not 100%. I still have a weakness for lurid local gossip. But when I dwell on the negative I mentally end up in a place that really drags me down and makes me into a person I don't like.

I'm not saying we need to go all Pollyanna. There is nothing wrong with saying that something was a bad idea. We all need to know what our mistakes are so we can learn from them. What is wrong is dwelling on the mistake and not moving on to how to fix it. Life isn#%92t perfect. We all make mistakes. It#%92s how we deal with those mistakes (and the mistakes of others) that makes us who we are.

Hey. We all know dogs respond better with a positive, less-confrontational attitude. It's easy to forget that those same skills also work great with people.

np, and please keep the dog - he's cute

i have been there, no i wasnt the one being made the example of, but i was the one terrified to express that i didnt know BECAUSE i didnt want to be made an example of. i sucked at math... i got in trouble because i sucked at math... i would stay home from school during exams, go to the bathroom and take extra long getting there and getting back.... or i would just skip class.... or sleep.... but i also had a teacher that gave his heart and soul to help me in math.... and would also pick me out of the crowd to answer questions he had tutored me on before class began....
I have seen teachers with bad moods make examples of people because those teachers were just mean spirited. one of them was removed from the staff because she had a reputation for doing that. even the clueless kids still laugh at the one being tormented in front of everyone.... "sure am glad i'm not THAT guy!"

and to apply to a forum... you have the same thing. it results in people being afraid to post because they're scared to death of being shot down in flames. people have already said that they're afraid to and avoid posting, Callie has said that she gets emails from people asking her questions that could just as easily be asked HERE, but they're too scared to do it.
There are certain people here, and i wont name any names, that are notorious for flaming people for the stupidest little pickass things. things that no one else even noticed because it wasnt important.... some folks just dont have anything to keep them busy so they start stuff.... they do it on a forum and they do it in real life. nit pickers, hen peckers, naggers... call them what you want. but you know and i know that the only agenda they have is to start something.. they see one little hole in the text and they dig at it and pick at it until everyone else sees it too. THOSE people are the problem. they have nothing worth while to contribute to the thread but they HAVE to post... but the only time they do post is when they see a flaw.

ORIGINAL: silverserpher

ORIGINAL: espencer

IF people read that person's past posts they will know what we know, therefore realize that we are not just talking because we want make someone mad, people, RESEARCH and then express your opinion

I'm not sure I agree with this and I think it's one reason the posts get off topic.  I think you view each thread individually and address the issues raised.  Researching the poster's entire body of work will invariably take you off topic and "personalize" your responses.  If you're ticked off about what somebody said last December in the training section, you're more likely to go off on them when they post pics of their kids in the NDR section.  I also think that researching old posts before you respond to a current post is kinda creepy......

 
Read this other thread and THEN you will see how i think she was having her hands full and not able to do as much as she needed to help properly her dogs, even less getting new ones
 
[linkhttp://forum.dog.com/asp/tm.asp?m=322017&mpage=1&key=񎧡]http://forum.dog.com/asp/tm.asp?m=322017&mpage=1&key=񎧡[/link]
 
You will see that is you stop kissing someone but because you dont know what 's going on maybe you can save a dog's life

Espencer...I was going to say this yesterday but didn't....

I also wonder if there is a pattern with certain ostings...not trying to single out Ratsicles...there are several people here...who post a LOT about personal issues...I wonder about the attention-seeking and drama-inducing factor.  And I do question how true some things are that are posted on occasion. 

So maybe the smart thing is to just not say anything at all...and then we will not feed into that underlying desire...?? 

Again, not trying to single out anyone, I think this works for trolls too...

You know, I'll bet that I could go through personal life posts about at least a couple of the people who were blasting Ratsicles and come up with things I think they could be doing diffferently with their dog ownership and personal lives...

At some point you have to accept that not everyone thinks like you and move on.  It's also important to realize that just because YOU could not handle something, does not mean than nobody else could handle it.  I don't think I could handle having 2 kids and multiple dogs, but that's me.  I don't go around telling people in that situation that there is no possible way that they could handle themselves. 

It is really sad, but I read her post and could pick out the things that people were going to pick and and I was right on the money.   I'm not at all surprised the thread was locked-it was starting to resemble "Shark Week" on the Discovery Channel.

If I had come on here when I first got Sally I'm sure I would have been ripped apart.  I was a complete dog novice, I had taken in a dog unexpectedly, I lived in a small one bedroom apartment, was not financially stable, said dog was a totally untrained, undersocialized, unhousebroken one year old pit bull mix.  And you know what, all of those people that told me I could never handle a dog like that and was doomed to failure would have been DEAD WRONG.

Gina,

I feel you, but IMO, just let it go. It's going to happen. Everybody does not take criticism well, and there is nowhere on this earth you  are not going to run in to that. IMO it is worht saying a thing at least once so that the person cannot ever say he/she didn't know or wasn't told. But then whether that person takes the advice or takes the advice well is out of your hands.

So IMO, don't sweat it. As long as you have done your part, you're good to go.
Paula

ORIGINAL: g33

So maybe the smart thing is to just not say anything at all...and then we will not feed into that underlying desire...?? 

Again, not trying to single out anyone, I think this works for trolls too...

that would be the wise thing to do... if you smell fish... then leave it's obviously fishy....
attention hounds will post stuff to get attention, and the worst thing you can do to them is to ignore it.
someone comes on and posts a problem and asks adive, and you give it... but they have tried it.. so you give more.. they've tried it.. more.. tried it.. more again.. tried it twice.. more more more.. tried tried failed....
eventually you start to realise that they're full of crud..... this can be about anything.. family, husband, dogs, co-workers....
eventually you can smell them coming.... and you stay away from them.

and yes as mentioned before... when you grouse about a spouse.... and someone says "jerk!" ... them's fightin words...
BUT some people only need just a little bit of agreement to feel vindicated, then things get worse for the supposed jerk.... if that person isnt there to defend themselves then you should NEVER agree with jerk status. my sister got married young, and divorced two years later. to hear her side of the story her husband was useless, boring, a cheater, a loner, didnt want anything to do with being married.... but then come to find out.... my sister encouraged him to do his own thing, when he DID it, she got mad at him and sulked for days, or weeks... nothing he could do would make her happy... so he gave up trying. then when he wanted a little love... she turned him down... so he got a girl friend and a divorce. he's happy living in Germany with future wife and she lives in a podunk white trash town mooching off her mom...... i know my sister well enough to know how mean spirited she really is, but to hear her talk and complain about how badly she was treated.... well... she's a good actress... and DONT offer advice because she's already tried it... [8|]

Wow... this is interesting. First of all, I don't buy this, "We were only trying to help her!" crap. You're not helping, you're just telling her she made a bad decision over and over again. What help is that? If you were really trying to help her, you'd give her advice for how to proceed. I didn't see ANYONE doing that, everyone's just trying to make her feel like an idiot for things she's done. This also assumes that what she's done is wrong, which may or may not even be true. Everyone just brought up a bunch of touchy subjects and made low blows about her age and her mental state and the fact that she was unable to rehabilitate a highly aggressive dog.

This is what happened... people read the thread and at first people respected her wishes to not be flamed/mocked/harshly criticized, until a few people started making little peeps like, "doesn't anyone else think it's wrong?" and "I wouldn't have done that, but that's just me." and as soon as the critics were confident they had people on their side, they just ripped into her! Don't even try to pretend you did anything else. You may have started out nice enough, but by the end of if you were all just bloodthirsty.

Also, I am sooooo sick of people saying that a person can't handle something because of their age. Maybe YOU were an idiot when you were 20, but I'm not and neither is Ratsicles so leave us alone!

I think that several members hit the nail on the head with their posts - not everyone is the same, not everyone is going to listen to unsolicited advice (especially if it's worded harshly).
 
Let's keep this on topic and not turn it into another bash-fest of a particular member.

I have never seen a situation improved by repeatedly flaming the OP. Constructive criticism and offers of assistance may be well received or they may not be. When they are not and previous issues are callously referred to, out of context, the only result is to hurt the OP. Or maybe it isn't the only result. Maybe it makes some people feel smart and powerful to bash others. When a person says they are leaving and others reword their original barbs, it does more to ensure they won't ever seek help again. Here and maybe not elsewhere.
 
I am stunned at the realization that it makes so many people happy for this to continue.

ORIGINAL: rolenta

Wow... this is interesting. First of all, I don't buy this, "We were only trying to help her!" crap. You're not helping, you're just telling her she made a bad decision over and over again. What help is that? If you were really trying to help her, you'd give her advice for how to proceed. I didn't see ANYONE doing that, everyone's just trying to make her feel like an idiot for things she's done. This also assumes that what she's done is wrong, which may or may not even be true. Everyone just brought up a bunch of touchy subjects and made low blows about her age and her mental state and the fact that she was unable to rehabilitate a highly aggressive dog.

This is what happened... people read the thread and at first people respected her wishes to not be flamed/mocked/harshly criticized, until a few people started making little peeps like, "doesn't anyone else think it's wrong?" and "I wouldn't have done that, but that's just me." and as soon as the critics were confident they had people on their side, they just ripped into her! Don't even try to pretend you did anything else. You may have started out nice enough, but by the end of if you were all just bloodthirsty.

Also, I am sooooo sick of people saying that a person can't handle something because of their age. Maybe YOU were an idiot when you were 20, but I'm not and neither is Ratsicles so leave us alone!

 
you're faster than me. i just wanted to say i didnt see any advice either.

ORIGINAL: rolenta


Also, I am sooooo sick of people saying that a person can't handle something because of their age. Maybe YOU were an idiot when you were 20, but I'm not and neither is Ratsicles so leave us alone!

i agree.. thank you! you said it for me! if my mother inlaw was right, then i should have put every single one of my animals in the POUND the very day i found out i was pregnant the first time... no... wait... the day we moved into our new house... no thats wrong too... the day i decided to move out of my mom's house and start my own life..... umm.... hahahahaha!
she couldnt handle ONE dog when she was in her twenties.... that was the only dog they ever owned for 17 years.... he was a basket case, people aggressive, dog aggressive, small animal aggressive..... he would drag people down the street to kill something..... so based on her experience, i shouldnt risk getting a big dog, especially a bulldog, because SHE couldnt handle a german shepherd.... and something bad MIGHT happen to me.... 

when i was a little kid i had all kinds of pets that i took care of by myself. there were days when we couldnt afford the food to feed them... know what i did? i snuck them OUR food. "what happened to call the corn flakes it was a brand new box??" - "uh... i was REALLY hungry..." [8|]
i know what i can handle because i've been through worse... i have seen the worst... and know how to not repeat it.... i also know how to tell someone in advance to be aware of these problems .... not avoid them, but keep a weather eye out FOR them... just in case.... i dont assume its just going to happen because it happened to me. that would be stupid, wouldnt it?

ORIGINAL: rolenta

Wow... this is interesting. First of all, I don't buy this, "We were only trying to help her!" crap. You're not helping, you're just telling her she made a bad decision over and over again. What help is that? If you were really trying to help her, you'd give her advice for how to proceed. I didn't see ANYONE doing that, everyone's just trying to make her feel like an idiot for things she's done. This also assumes that what she's done is wrong, which may or may not even be true. Everyone just brought up a bunch of touchy subjects and made low blows about her age and her mental state and the fact that she was unable to rehabilitate a highly aggressive dog.

This is what happened... people read the thread and at first people respected her wishes to not be flamed/mocked/harshly criticized, until a few people started making little peeps like, "doesn't anyone else think it's wrong?" and "I wouldn't have done that, but that's just me." and as soon as the critics were confident they had people on their side, they just ripped into her! Don't even try to pretend you did anything else. You may have started out nice enough, but by the end of if you were all just bloodthirsty.

Also, I am sooooo sick of people saying that a person can't handle something because of their age. Maybe YOU were an idiot when you were 20, but I'm not and neither is Ratsicles so leave us alone!

 
[tongue-in cheek] Don't worry, you'll get into your 30's and beyond and realize that you were an idiot at 20, too! [/tongue-in-cheek]
 
Seriously, that was meant as a total [8D][8D][8D] joke.  []

ORIGINAL: rolenta

Wow... this is interesting. First of all, I don't buy this, "We were only trying to help her!" crap. You're not helping, you're just telling her she made a bad decision over and over again. What help is that? If you were really trying to help her, you'd give her advice for how to proceed. I didn't see ANYONE doing that, everyone's just trying to make her feel like an idiot for things she's done. This also assumes that what she's done is wrong, which may or may not even be true. Everyone just brought up a bunch of touchy subjects and made low blows about her age and her mental state and the fact that she was unable to rehabilitate a highly aggressive dog.

This is what happened... people read the thread and at first people respected her wishes to not be flamed/mocked/harshly criticized, until a few people started making little peeps like, "doesn't anyone else think it's wrong?" and "I wouldn't have done that, but that's just me." and as soon as the critics were confident they had people on their side, they just ripped into her! Don't even try to pretend you did anything else. You may have started out nice enough, but by the end of if you were all just bloodthirsty.

Also, I am sooooo sick of people saying that a person can't handle something because of their age. Maybe YOU were an idiot when you were 20, but I'm not and neither is Ratsicles so leave us alone!

I couldn't agree more, you summed up almost everything I was thinking. No one is perfect, and I think a lot of low-blows were made. The age thing is what got me really upset, to be honest. I was an assistant manager at a drug store at age 16, and owned my own business and was financially stable by 19, while juggling 5 horses, 2 dogs, and 2 cats. So I am insulted on her behalf, and every person in this world who has accomplished a lot at a young age and had people sneer at them their whole lives for being "young". It is simply ridiculous. You have no right to tell people what they can and cannot handle.

er, I apologize if that was too off topic. Just struck a nerve with me.

Also just a note...some of you are saying "I wasn't being mean" or what not, when everyone else percieved as such...even if "mean" wasn't your intention, this is the internet. So it might be a good idea to step outside the box and look at your posts from another point of view. Ask Yourself: "whould I be offended if someone said something like to me/worded it that way?" I think you just might, regardless of the good intention of the poster, it's all a matter of perspective.