Dog Bite Law

    • Gold Top Dog

    Dog Bite Law

    I've been searching the net but haven't found what I'm looking for so far. I live in missouri and I was wondering what liability would be in the following hypothetical situation:

    Dog is outside in a fenced back yard, owner is in garage/open house - basically within earshot and mindful of the dog, before owner can get outside dog bites someone who stuck a body part through the fence or entered the fence totally unanounced by unclipping the lock on the gate.

    Another part to that... how is 'owner' determined? Would the owner of the property be liable or would it be the 'owner' of the dog... what about a mutt with no papers who's basically had the whole family pay vet bills at one time or another?

    After much thought and a new neighbor who's got a girlfriend with a young child who she lets roam free and a pug that gets loose frequently I'm seriously considering euth'ing my dog Rupert and my parents are considering euth'ing two of their dogs a min pin and Rupert's sister. Plans are to have it done in one day early april, have the vet come to the house - is that the best way? Should I ask the vet for sedatives like pills to give before he gets here so the dogs don't have to be muzzled?

    • Gold Top Dog

    boredpuppy08

    After much thought and a new neighbor who's got a girlfriend with a young child who she lets roam free and a pug that gets loose frequently I'm seriously considering euth'ing my dog Rupert and my parents are considering euth'ing two of their dogs a min pin and Rupert's sister. Plans are to have it done in one day early april, have the vet come to the house - is that the best way? Should I ask the vet for sedatives like pills to give before he gets here so the dogs don't have to be muzzled?

    You must be joking!

    Your going to kill your dogs in the event that they could possibly bite a neighbors girlfriend with a young child? Did you ever think about telling the neighbor not to let their young child by the fence?  Or keeping your dogs in the house until you could be there to watch them or the neighbors kid? How do you know the kid will come there? How do you know the dogs will bite? There has to be a lot of suggestions.... but euthanizing isn't one of my options.

    • Gold Top Dog

     Your going to kill your dogs?!! What? Im not sure I understand.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Are you being sarcastic? 

    • Gold Top Dog

    boredpuppy08

    After much thought and a new neighbor who's got a girlfriend with a young child who she lets roam free and a pug that gets loose frequently I'm seriously considering euth'ing my dog Rupert and my parents are considering euth'ing two of their dogs a min pin and Rupert's sister. Plans are to have it done in one day early april, have the vet come to the house - is that the best way? Should I ask the vet for sedatives like pills to give before he gets here so the dogs don't have to be muzzled?

    Hmmmm....

    • Gold Top Dog

    I am not sure i would ever be able to put all my dogs down just because a neighbor cant watch their kid- you have done your part by keeping dogs in a fence- they need to do their part to ensure body parts are not entering that fence- Put up a beware of dog sign on the fence and you will be ok.

    • Gold Top Dog
    I think they're tired working or teaching their dogs. Most people when having a dog becomes work, they usually give up on them. That's fact. I find it sad. I also have find it sad that people worry, are overly negative, pessimistic of things that have NOT happened yet. do you want to do because of fear or not be knowledgeable of handling a situation. You don't sound prepared nor do you sound you want to work for it. You rather live in fear so you'll kill innocent lives that have done NOTHING. So you they die because you and your family don't want work at it.

    PATHETIC if you ask me. Do you want you need to do. I am pretty much disgusted by your post. I should not have replied.... sigh

    • Gold Top Dog

    I know most of you don't know this poster, but Rupert hasn't been an easy dog to have. He's sick and aching and unsocialized and quite frankly, I think the owner has done her darn best to manage Rupert the best that she's been able.

    I'm sorry you're going through this, boredpuppy. If you go through with euthanasia, maybe it's only time for Rupert and not the others? I actually haven't seen you post for a long time and I thought maybe things were looking up, and maybe they were.

    I feel so bad for this extra stress you've all been under. This family has been pretty darn committed to keeping a really tough dog but they've done for quite some time. I wondered if boredpuppy is being sarcastic but knowing her story, I think maybe she's just tired from dealing with Rupert and under stress.

    Boredpuppy, is there anything else that can be done for Rupert before he has to be PTS?

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    nfowler, thanks for the extra info.  I do remember some posts from the OP.  The way the original post was worded was just strange and I wish we could talk some more with boredpuppy. 

    • Gold Top Dog

    It sounds like there's more involved than just a hypothetical situation.

    First topic, legality. The owner of the dog is the owner and is personally liable. The owner of the property, whether that is dog owner or landlord, should have insurance on the property that covers damages to others. For this purpose, the dog is considered property. What would happen is someone injured could claim on the property insurance. The landlord could then redress grievances with the tenant through either helping to pay the increased insurance rates or the landlord could have the tenant move or remove the dog from the property, provided it can be proven that the dog presents a continuing danger. If the dog owner is also the property owner, the insurance policy will handle damages and the owner will pay an increased premium for a while. The inurance company may also require remedial action to continue the policy, such as proof of pet enclosure or removal of the pet, etc. Some insurance companies won't cover some dogs.

    As for euth'ing a dog before he's actually done something, I think that's jumping the gun. Not that you need to wait until the dog has injured someone. I am also not understanding the coordination of euth'ing pets throughout the family. I feel there's not enough information to make an accurate judgement in this case but I hope my understanding of legal responsibilities of home and pet ownership have helped.

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    Instead of killing the dogs before they have even commited a crime, have you considered re-homing them?  Surely, there is more to this than what is written here.  And, I see in another post on this thread that Rupert has been a difficult dog.  I'm so sorry to hear about that.

    Please put MORE thought into the possibilities before taking such drastic measures.

    Apologies in advance if there is a lot more to this story.  Its just that the last paragraph of your post sounds extreme.

    • Gold Top Dog

    The dogs have been evaluated, one min pin can be worked with so he's going to stay. No rescue will take Rupert, believe me I've tried. There is a lot more to the situation... it's a mess. It actually started years ago when I was 13, rupert was only a pup 4-5 months old. Or next door neighbor loved his yard, I was a good kid and mindful of property lines but somehow he thought I was intentionally letting my dog go to the bathroom in his yard, actually it was all the feral cats in the area and so one day I was walking back from the park to find a shotgun leveled at Rupert and this man shouting at me... the police came and it was a huge mess. That guy vacated and finally sold his house 6 months ago, and we found out a month ago it was sold to his grandson. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. That guy and his girlfriend are intentionally causing problems, serious threats of poision have been made. Rupert's already got some liver/kidney stuff going on, if he were to eat poision he doesn't have any youthful resiliance to get him through it. We check the yard, but don't know if we can find everything. It's truely insane, our dogs haven't been off our property in months and not at all while this guy has lived here... we put in a brand new fence last year because other neighbors moved in with a dog and all that and it was getting loose and that pretty much solved the problem then. I have no idea why this is happening, we haven't done anything wrong, we don't let the dogs out till 8 am and don't let them out later than 10, they don't stay out more than 10 minutes at a time and we are always mindful and supervise them, they're securely fenced, yet the malice this neighbor has toward us. I posted a while back about a near accident with another neighborhood kid who wandered unattended up to our property, maybe it wasn't no big deal like they told me at the time and this is actually a coordinated attempt to get our dogs out of the neighborhood. Basically any time our dogs are out, the girl friend next door comes out with her loose dog and kid and lets them play right on the property line, then pretends she doesn't notice when the dog runs over to fence fight so the kid gets all upset and tries to come get the pug and I go yell at OUR dogs to get in the house then she comes over screaming at me - this has happened 4 times now, and makes a huge deal of checking her son for bite marks all the while screaming at us.  I don't mean to be paranoid but it's obvious we're being set up for something.

     My parents made a serious mistake with the oldest female min pin Doodle, she shouldn't have been bred and over time her horrible temperment has gotten much much worse, as has that of her daughter and the stress those two are living with on a daily basis even separated(we're doing crate and rotate) is truely inhumane. Those two will bite humans if cornered i don't know about if someone sticks a hand in the fence and we can't afford to find out, rescues will not take and rehome dogs with such poor temperments who attack everything in sight. Sometimes they're great little dogs, playful, we've worked really hard as a family being calm and learning ways to diffuse tension between the dogs so there was a period of about 5 months when we had not one single fight, but this fighting with the neighbors has caused some serious tensions and injuries. A week ago Doodle got bit by her daughter through a gate that her daughter ate through in about 3 minutes in the house while the woman was here and rupert/toy were outside with me, doodle got bit on the muzzle near the eye and had to have it lanced so now she's got this horrible wound on her face. We're working closely with the vet and a trainer and both think the situation can't be helped, the dogs are suffering.

    Or pack has degenerated into a mess again when things were going really well for a while, our lives are hell. The dogs are feeling the stress certainly, and when the woman comes over raving the dogs get into fights with one another, mainly rupert's sister jumps on him so first time in his life he's had to have stitches. We tried doing one to two dogs out at a time only, she still came over.

    I probably deserve the troll comment, I feel like one. I would do anything for our dogs but I don't know what else to do nor do my parents, even the trainer said we're working with a massive dynamic. My father is... on meds. He can't deal with the stress he'll have a breakdown. So we've got no choice but to have the dogs put down, lovingly in their own home as humanely as possible.

    The police have made it clear they've got to hear the threats and see what's going on before they'll do anything. The woman can see when I've got a camera in my hand and she doesn't dare pull her crap then.

    Thanks Ron2 I'll see tomorrow about insurance.

    EDIT: I realised I left out the whole mention of the gate situation. The gate on the fence has one of those u shaped lift up latches adn we've kept a caribiner clip on it so the dogs can't lift it up by accident even though they've never shown an inclination to, a few days ago I walked out to check the yard first thing in the morning and the gate was wide open, clip had been clipped back on the gate but there was *no way* that gate could have come open it's self. We bought a brand new padlock and put that on the gate, it completely dissappeared the same night and once again the gate was sitting wide open. If our dogs had just been let out like we used to they would have gotten loose... if they'd run at someone especially the neighbors I have no doubt a gun would have appeared and dogs would have been shot, even by police. That's a huge factor in this as well.

    • Gold Top Dog

    I knew you weren't a troll--just struggling.

    Now let's all get to work and see what we can do here, if anything. Gosh, I'm sorry you have WEIRD neighbors and a father who's not feeling well. Looks like you have a lot stacked against but if I know Ron, he's not one to give up with a bit of a fight, especially if things feel unjust. Stay tuned--he'll respond.

    • Gold Top Dog

    I've read through your post several times.  What a sad, horrible mess.  The issues with the neighbor is just mind boggling and I have no advice other than to move.  I can't imagine living next to people like that, they sound really scary.  I would advise you to forget the clip on the gate and use a padlock and chain or cable.  I would also install exterior video monitoring of your property perimeter.  The equipment is not that expensive and most homeowners can install it themselves.  Be sure and get the type that has time/date stamp.  These people sound dangerous and having a video record may prove invaluable in any legal proceeding.

    You said that you and your family are working with a Vet and a trainer and both say there is no hope for the dogs that fight with each other and fear bite.  I agree that the dogs are suffering.  The situation with your Dad's health is another consideration.  I can't judge you or your family's decision to put these dogs to sleep.  I feel terrible for everyone involved, human and dog.  The stress you describe sounds horrendous. Humanely putting down these dogs is not something I will condemn if you truly feel you have reached the point where no options are available.  A mild tranquilizer to relax the dogs and having the Vet come to your home will help tremendously.  Be with the dogs to give them comfort if you can.

    I hope you and your family find some sort of peace.  I can't judge you until I walk in your shoes.  I will keep you and your family in my prayers. 

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    Speechless...Whatever your family decides, please don't get anymore dogs, ever.