Greyhound racing.... just curious

JackieG

And the argument that these dogs love to race is weak.  These dogs love to hunt game and track racing is a very poor substitute.  I love strawberry shortcake but I don't want to be restrained and force fed and then killed when I don't eat enough!!

 

 

 The dogs aren't forced to run and no one can make them perform well.

AgileGSD

 The dogs aren't forced to run and no one can make them perform well.

Just how much expierence do you have, personally, with greyhounds and racing? I've worked with many greyhounds, and developed a faily close relationship with a training kennel, as well as worked under a track vet for over a year.

These dogs are not treated as they should be. Just because you love something does not mean it should be made your entire life, and when you are no longer the best at it, well - we'll just put you to rest. No happy home, no dog treats, no comfy bed - well, you do have that newspaper.

They are bred for their running capabilites and speed, yes. But they are also bred for money. And when that dog is no longer profitable, it's usless to the owners, and they do not care what happens to it. They don't care if it is put to sleep, or adopted out to a nice home. All they care about is how many dogs in their kennels are making them a nice profit.

jjsmom06

First off…ask ANY VET who specializes in greys that are off the track and they will tell you that a greyhounds teeth is NOT like “many other pet dogs”. My vet not only owns greys, and a 1/3 of her clientele owns greys, but she cleans the teeth and fixing every dog off a track for one of the 4 rescues in our city.  When she sits down to discuss how the teeth cleaning went for an annual cleaning (which, btw, most breeds don’t require an annual cleaning), she will tell you “for a greyhounds teeth” how your dogs rate. She is very clear that greys teeth are not even comparable to other breeds teeth. These dogs have chronic teeth problems because of their track life.  My last female died because of her teeth. Had I had the vet I have now who is very grey savvy, pretty much all her teeth would have been yanked by the time she was 7 and we wouldn’t have lost her just after she turned 10. 

 

 Interestingly, the show Greys I have known were also prone to problems with their teeth. The raw fed ones tend to be much better and not all have bad teeth but they are certainly more prone to problems than the average dog. Placement of the teeth could also be an issue due to the narrow, long muzzle.  They could also have a genetic tendency towards softer teeth or "bad spit" which makes dental issues more likely. Actually the tooth issue is what has caused quite a few show Grey people to switch to raw feeding - they didn't want the risk of having to put the dogs under for cleaning every 6 - 12 months.And these are dogs who have never seen a racetrack. Dental issues are very common in adult pet dogs -I'd say at least half of the kibble fed ones I see over 2 or 3 have tartar buildup, bad breath and/or inflamed gums. In toy breeds, it is more common for them to have dental problems than for them not to. Perhaps the issue with track Greys is not entirely due to diet after all?

I've done dental cleanings on 10 month old greyhounds before. Not normal build up, sorry. These are high dental grade, not just a little discoloring. Thick, hard, discusting build up. I'm sure some of it does have to do with the breed, but there is no reason a 10 month old dog should have to under go such a cleaning.

You know what agile? I started to respond back to you and then decided it was pointless. Apparently you are an “expert” on oral hygiene in all breeds enough to know that there isn’t anything really out of place in track greys, despite the fact that Erica and I are telling you that it is not normal. And while they may not “force” the dogs to run, perhaps more of them would run faster and try to beat the others if they knew that the length of their life depended on it. That a bullet to the head, a hanging with a noose, being left in the desert with a muzzle on to starve to death and having their ears cut off first so that they cant be traced by their racing tats would be postponed a little longer if they just ran faster. And btw, those things still happen in the good old U.S. of A…and not just in other countries. ;) This thread was asking your opinion of greyhound racing. I think I have stated my opinion and you certainly are entitled to yours and continued discussion of it with you appears to be pointless so I won’t be continuing. You are certainly entitled to have a different belief than I.

Bear with me as I puzzle things out here... 

The thing to me is...no racing...no greyhounds...period.

The show community is not raising the same type of dog in temperament, or even conformation or drive, I'd guess we can all agree?

What/where would the breed, the Greyhound be without racing thinking in future tense...as far as numbers, and who (what group?) would then...become the breed's caretaker to ensure it does not die completely off sans organized gambling based sport?

Having a cogitate about this...I really am not informed enough to hazard guesses...but I bet some GH folks here have considered this deeply so I'd love to hear what you came up with. Genuinely interested.

eta: I just thought of a sorta related thing. They were or did outlaw foxhunting in the UK and there was much worry about what would happen to the packs...which are not by and large...pet dogs...nor are they really amenable to such. Perhaps even less so than a GH...there was dramatic talk about entire packs having to be put down, etc for lack of suitable homes after their purpose was removed. Now I don't know the status of things over there now...no idea if the fatalistic possibility occured (UK members help me out?)...but it did make me think about GH's...they at least have going for them that they make really good pets...for various types of people. Is breeding them and keeping the breed viable solely FOR that purpose...acceptable?

Interesting thought.  What about lure coursing?  I've seen plenty of grey's doing this and they seem to be having a great time doing what they were bred to do.  Isn't this closer to what the original greyhound was "designed" for rather than track racing.  Of course, it's not the desert and chasing a gazelle but it's also not a money sport where dogs are often mistreated.  Greyhound experts please chime in.  I don't think the breed would die if track racing ended.  I don't know much about the show grey's.  Are they hugely different, like Labs?

I considered that...BUT...people...you gotta love em...they will get competitive about that. If that is the qualifier for proving your dogs it seems to me that in a decade we'd be right back to "my dog is faster than yours...and I can prove it..." type of mentality and people will perhaps go down a road that's not to the dogs benefit like they have with organized racing.

It's a quandry~ I mean the entire BREED was really created to be fast and hunt fast things...but that's really not going to be available...failing that people set to racing their dogs against one another and then we got racing...if they are chasing a baggie on a line...might that also not become a competitive issue?

My head hurts LOL.

JackieG

I don't think the breed would die if track racing ended.  I don't know much about the show grey's.  Are they hugely different, like Labs?

yes...I believe that as a whole the bloodlines have been kept utterly separate...someone can correct if not. Beagles have some cross over as people DO do both...GH's not so much. That separation can be great tho if you have a real genetic issue...I always think that is the unseen benefit of "two groups" that don't see eye to eye. If ever some huge catastrophic issue came up...there is a completely separate (as much as purebred dogs can be) source of the same breed to help both...

Off track now...sorry...LOL.

Gina,

  

I don’t think the breed would die. There are still people who would breed greys, they just wouldn’t kill so many a year. As I understand it, one of the legislative measures, in addition to closing down race tracks and making it illegal in many states, was to restrict the numbers of greys that can be bred for racing.  This is one of the reasons we went from killing about $50,000+ racing greys a year about a decade or so ago, to killing maybe closer to 10,000. So it wasn’t just the fact that tracks were under scrutiny and being watched and being forced to partner with rescues, it was a reduction in breeding practices too.  Again, I may be wrong about this, but to my recollection when I researched a lot of these changes in the sheer number of grey deaths, breeding practice changes were part of the reason for the decline.

 

  

There would be many breeders that would continue to breed “racing greys” even if it wasn’t to race them. there are a number of very responsible breeders out there, even some that are tightly knit with the greyhound rescue community. Even on greytalk, you have a community of mainly grey owners and grey rescue folks and advocates, mixed in with some responsible breeders and trainers.

 

  

What kills me is when I see pet shops have greyhounds… that just gets my goat to no end.   Aghhhh… anyway I wont even go there with that topic…

 

  

But to your point, there are MANY responsible breeders who would continue to breed racing type greys and I am sure would incorporate lure coursing and such into their program when they are raising the pups.

   I cant speak too much to the differences between track type greys and show greys…but there are differences that you can even tell just in form and size.

 

jjsmom06

 

... That a bullet to the head, a hanging with a noose, being left in the desert with a muzzle on to starve to death and having their ears cut off first so that they cant be traced by their racing tats would be postponed a little longer if they just ran faster. And btw, those things still happen in the good old U.S. of A…and not just in other countries...

In case some might think that the above are exaggerations, I assure you they are not.

As previously stated, I have been involved with greys for over 15 years. At first I was somewhat indifferent to racing. As I began traveling to several states with tracks and visiting many rescue programs however, my indifference changed. Belonging to several grey message boards I always verified what I heard and read. I could no longer be indifferent.

My current grey escaped from an abusive trainer. He was reported on a lost greyhound message board that I had helped establish. After spending nine months roaming the streets of a small Texas town, he was finally captured, thanks to the concern and persistence of GPA Houston. When found he had a broken piece of rope around his neck. He still wore his puppy collar which has become embedded in his neck as he grew. I drove from PA to Houston to "visit" him. He had different ideas.   

The couple that own 1 of 4 different rescues in my city have been involved in rescue for about 20+ years now. It started with a magazine article the wife read while waiting in a doctor’s office. She couldn’t believe what she read about these dogs and what was being done to them, and so she looked into it and found out all the horror stories were actually 100% true. She and her husband have been committed to rescue ever since and the majority of the funds come directly out of their own pockets from full time jobs they have and they hire kennel staff to assist them during the day while they worked. Then at night, they don’t do anything except care for the up to 16 dogs in their kennel and the dozen “un-adoptables” that live out the rest of their lives in the comfort of their home. 

 

 I have helped with several amber alerts and I hate doing it. Nothing is worse than trying to track these injured and terrified animals that are one place one second and gone the next. One of my “tracking” experiences never lead to the return of the dog that has a forever home, and it was horribly sad. I can’t go to that part of the city without thinking about it and it breaks my heart and I always wonder if there is any way he is still alive. The second one I worked on did lead to the capture of a coyote dog (greyhound). That poor animal. He had never had human contact nor any care or compassion shown to him. He was lucky they didn’t put him down when he bit a worker at an animal shelter. But people worked together to get him transferred a few hours south of where he was found and into the home of this couple.   I think it took them close to a year to get him adopted out…but boy how did he change!  And you are right… they absolutely are EXCELLENT at finding themselves the “right owner”. Our Jimmy James picked us after being returned from several homes over the course of 3 years that didn’t work out. We brought him home for a single night to transport to an adoption event and picnic the next day and he decided in those 9 hours he spent at our home that our house would be his. He was the biggest snot at the adoption event, snarling and being horribly behaved to everyone who wanted to look at adopting him. I was the only one he let near him. After a few more months of not getting adopted (so the last stay at the rescue was 7 months total…) he came home with us and that is where he will stay.  They know a caring heart and the right owner when they see it. Even the most untrusting know who to eventually trust and can really turn around.  My husband and I take the returned dogs who have issues, are unadoptable as is and who are greatly misunderstood. We figure a typical greyhound can adapt and do really well in most homes, but the ones who have jumped from home to home due to issues need help. It sounds like your grey found the right owner and was very lucky you came along to help.   ;)  

 

rwbeagles

JackieG

I don't think the breed would die if track racing ended.  I don't know much about the show grey's.  Are they hugely different, like Labs?

yes...I believe that as a whole the bloodlines have been kept utterly separate...someone can correct if not. Beagles have some cross over as people DO do both...GH's not so much. That separation can be great tho if you have a real genetic issue...I always think that is the unseen benefit of "two groups" that don't see eye to eye. If ever some huge catastrophic issue came up...there is a completely separate (as much as purebred dogs can be) source of the same breed to help both...

Off track now...sorry...LOL.

 

 There ARE AKC Grey breeders who outcross to NGA lines, so they have not been kept utterly separated. It is not common but not unheard of for some NGA registered, tattooed dogs to be shown in AKC conformation. The AKC stud book is open to NGA regsitered dogs, despite the GCA attempting to have it closed. There are not, however enough AKC Grey breeders to support the breed. The number of AKC Grey litters registered every year is very small. Genetic diversity would be a major concern if the breed's population in the US depended soley on AKC show breeders.

DrOgreys

jjsmom06

 

... That a bullet to the head, a hanging with a noose, being left in the desert with a muzzle on to starve to death and having their ears cut off first so that they cant be traced by their racing tats would be postponed a little longer if they just ran faster. And btw, those things still happen in the good old U.S. of A…and not just in other countries...

In case some might think that the above are exaggerations, I assure you they are not.

As previously stated, I have been involved with greys for over 15 years. At first I was

 

 So that is the norm and what happens to the vast majority of track bred Greyhounds?

They are put down.