Now THIS is Scary

rwbeagles

I do not want MY breeds future handled by those that "get around" laws. I would rather fight to remain a responsible breeder in the daylight than operate in the dark, in fear of prosecution.

ITA. So some people can "get around" such laws - they still have to live in fear of being found out, having their dogs taken away and being turned into a criminal for breeding dogs or owning a "dangerous breed". It seems impossible to me that such things could happen in the US but they already are and it seems like the people who are very concerned about it are in the minority. Most people seem willing to overlook anti-breeding laws because they aren't breeders and/or aren't totally in favor of breeding, BSL because they don't have targeted breeds, limit laws because they wouldn't ever have more than a couple dogs, anti-tethering laws because they wouldn't ever use a tie out any way and so on.

 AR activists (and they are behind these laws, have no doubt) have admitted that their intent has been to divide and conquer and I have to say it has worked wonders for their cause. People seem to fail to see it isn't all about them and what they like/want personally with restrictive ownership laws. Such laws at some point, will end up having an effect on all pet owners - not just people you disagree with, not just people you dislike, not just people who are totally different from you but you and your pets.

 divide and conquer is right. i have a dogworld magazine from June 2000 with an article in it about this subject written by Janice Sparhawk Gardner .... basically it says throughout history it has been defined that the first army on the field is usually the victor because they got to  select the most advantageous position. and Nicolo Machiavelli noticed that in an argument the person who first defined the opponent and set the parameters was the discourse often won the point..... dog owners and breeders have thus been defined. if we cant all get together and agree then we're going to HAVE to "get around". The people who kept their pit bulls in the UK werent JUST dog fighters.... they were hunters or farmers who worked their dogs on game and still felt a strong need to keep them. or they were the owners of harmless pets that never had and never would hurt anyone.

this isnt just an annoying little political disagreement. its all out war against people who want to own animals of any species. and the majority of our enemies are made up of people who dont see a need to breed more animals because they only need one. they dont see the full scope of the problem. Its the people who want to look down their noses at people who own big working dogs. they dont see a purpose in life for a hunting dog because we have supermarkets now. they think their little fuzzy lap dogs are better anyway and SHOULD be allowed to run free and poop on any lawn they want to.

they're naive in believing they wont be touched by this. they keep signing those checks to support these goons that hate ANY kind of pet owner. 

DPU

AgileGSD

 I'm afraid that is the biggest issue - American citizens no longer seem to value their rights  or freedom :(

The sky is falling!  The sky is falling!

Oh DPU!   That made me giggle.

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I don't fall for the conspiracy movement, but I am dismayed at the move towards mandatory spay/neuter. I am also VERY dismayed that the nutters run major animal welfare groups. I think there is a real need for animal LOVERS to get involved. In policy, in organizations, etc.

We need to start a lobbying and public education organization! 

you know what everyones excuse is dont you?

"I'm too busy!"

i better hush before this turns into one of those "Feed the Children" type commercials.... but a little bit of effort goes a long long way..  

AgileGSD

 A ten year breeding.ownership ban would wipe the breed's population out, at least in this country.

Ok maybe not ten years but seriously have you seen the numbers of pit bulls we have? Toy breeds? Oh MY!

Dont forget we are all on the same side though!

So I am still wondering if the ban would mean 1 litter per bitch or per kennel?

i'm not and probably never will be a breeder so i chose a good round number.... i dont know when most dogs are too old for breeding... but i do know that many of them can live way past the age of ten.

oh yes it would certainly knock a huge chunk out of the population of dogs, but at the rate they're being "FARMED" and killed i wonder if thats really a bad thing. its a case of "Lets appreciate what we have before making more!" its a surplus thats being wasted for no good reason except people think its their right to do with their own property what they want and to dispose of it in any way they see fit, including dumping them in a shelter. when it becomes someone elses problem is when there needs to be a line drawn.

the other problem i see is money. i seriously believe spaying and neutering should be free all the time... not just for the second thursday out of every month with an R in it... i already know that most vets arent hurting for cash...... so i dont buy into the whole "it wouldnt be profitable" BS... i also know of a few vets that are in the trade because it IS profitable.

NO i'm not condemning vets or changing the subject.... just pointing out the few i know and that there IS a solution and it doesnt have to be MANDATORY.

so now we have a list of...

Money
Time 

what else is causing dog owners to lose this fight? 

AuroraLove

Ok maybe not ten years but seriously have you seen the numbers of pit bulls we have? Toy breeds? Oh MY!

But really, the only people that would comply would be the responsible people. So you're left with irresponsible people breeding what has been the downfall of these breeds anyway - poor genetics, no socialization, no health checks etc...

Gizmo, true true true! I was speaking in idealistic terms of course

 if anything should be banned it should be the puppy mills. and anyone caught farming "pets" should be fined severely. they're raising them like cattle... but UNlike cattle no one eats these animals and i highly doubt anyone is going to start doing so now. i think once the mills have been closed we'll see an improvement in the shelter situation.

i dont like the government to limit me on anything i want to keep on my property but there really should be some sort of obvious sign if someone is rescuing animals, hording them, or farming them..... 

DumDog

i dont know when most dogs are too old for breeding... but i do know that many of them can live way past the age of ten.

While dogs can live past the age of ten it is widely considered too old for a bitch's first litter, is certainly past their reproductive prime and certainly much riskier.

it would take EVERYONE to think up an idea, go over it with others, revise, re-think, reiterate..... and then everyone has to agree.... which will never happen. because SOMEONE is going to feel like they're being put in the naughty chair for someone elses idiot mistake..

leash laws are a good example.. SOME people dont think the leash law applies to them because they have very well behaved dogs that have 100% recall etc bla bla.. why should they be limited? well.... many breeders are of the same mind. why should THEY have to pay heavy fines or license fees when they're one of the good guys? they're going to cross their arms, stamp their feet, pick up their marbles and go home. so at the end of the day Big Daddy Government has to make the decisions for us whether we like it or not.  

i'm not a breeder but i like breeders. the good ones anyway.... i plan to get my next bulldog from a good local breeder. at the rate i'm going that will be ten years from now.... but God only knows what sort of CRAP is going to happen in the dog world between now and then.. ESPECIALLY in the realm of bulldog owners.... i may be forced to hand in my own beloved bullies to be euthed because our government decides to have a Dangerous Dog Amnesty just like in the UK. 

DumDog

The people who kept their pit bulls in the UK werent JUST dog fighters.... they were hunters or farmers who worked their dogs on game and still felt a strong need to keep them.

That is no longer the case.  The VAST majority of people who keep pitties (not Staffs, PITTIES) do so for fighting, or because they think it makes them look tough, or so they can use "it" as a weapon.  Other than that, the breed has been all but wiped out.

that i am aware of. i was only pointing out the innocents that got steamrolled because of these thugs. and the thugs STILL have these dogs.... and the thugs still have their dogs.

something is wrong with that picture.