Iditarod 2008 fatality update

    • Gold Top Dog

    Any of you folks consider the dogs we don't read about? You know once the race is over all is well...right?

    >>>>A couple of years ago, a study in the American Journal of Respiratory and Critical CareMedicine reported that 81% of the 59 dogs they examined after one Iditarod had “abnormal accumulations” of mucus or cellular debris in their lower airways. In addition to fluid in the lungs, bleeding stomach ulcers occur, as does general cramping, dislocations, fractures, muscle and tendon tears, tendinitis, dehydration, hypothermia, raw paws, penile frostbite and viruses.>>>>

    • Gold Top Dog

    Seems to me that it should not be a big task to stop this race from happening or at a minimum change the race.  Whats the politics here or the economics?  Is it an Alaskan pride thing?  I thought oil was Alaska's big thing or is it tourism.  Hmmmm, this race can actually help or hurt Alaska, depending on how the race is defined.

    Thanks Snownose for posting information about this race.  Like so many others, I just did not pay attention. 

    • Gold Top Dog

    I agree with some that these dogs are not your family house pet and then are born to RUN and would be miserable with the amount of exercise that most of our dogs get, but I agree with others that they don't know when to call it quits and it's up to the handlers to be advocates for their dogs.  The dogs would probably run themselves to death if it was their choice, just like some GSDs and Malinois will still pursue a villain with a loaded gun who will shoot them, and like a LGD might go after a predator that could kill the LGD.  Dogs don't know any better, people do.  I agree with Karyn, the race should be a relay like it was meant to be.  What's wrong with that?  Cut up the distance over several teams.  The dogs can still run, there's still the glory of the race and the tradition... 

    • Gold Top Dog

    snownose
    A couple of years ago, a study in the American Journal of Respiratory and Critical CareMedicine reported that 81% of the 59 dogs they examined after one Iditarod had “abnormal accumulations” of mucus or cellular debris in their lower airways.

     

    Now were these problems a result of running the long race or a result or strenous outdoor activity in cold weather.  Did they make any distinction as to the length of the race making any difference?

     

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    DPU

    Seems to me that it should not be a big task to stop this race from happening or at a minimum change the race.  Whats the politics here or the economics?  Is it an Alaskan pride thing?  I thought oil was Alaska's big thing or is it tourism.  Hmmmm, this race can actually help or hurt Alaska, depending on how the race is defined.

     

     Why should it be stopped just because some out of state people, who don't know a thing about mushing don't like it?

    • Gold Top Dog

    They shouldn't stop the race but change a couple things.  I think that is all snownose is relaying here. 

    • Gold Top Dog

    AgileGSD
    Why should it be stopped just because some out of state people, who don't know a thing about mushing don't like it?

     

    I don't want the race stopped....but, hey.....some improvements would be nice....why cause undue pain and discomfort to dogs when it has nothing to do with the original race and is just something than man cooked up?

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    timsdat
    Now were these problems a result of running the long race or a result or strenous outdoor activity in cold weather.  Did they make any distinction as to the length of the race making any difference?

     

    I am not aware of any studies done after shorter races.....but, the fatality of dogs in shorter races is just not happening like it is in the Iditarod.....one of the big problems is rest time for the dogs after snacking or mealtime......these dogs have no time to digest the food and then during running suck up stomach content into the lungs........there are only 2 mandatory rest times....one 8 hour/ one 24 hour......today the Iditarod is being completed in roughly 10 days.....over 1100 miles..........

    • Gold Top Dog

    I'm all for mushing, and races, and believe the dogs, on the whole, enjoy mushing. But if the animals are predictably dying and suffering in this one particular grueling race, why not change the race to keep them safe and let everyone, dogs and mushers and audience, enjoy the experience?

    • Gold Top Dog
    I wanted to add that this year the winner had an average speed of 4.88 miles per hour....now, he needed to cover over 1100 miles in just under 10 days.......so how many hours were these dogs running each day?
    • Gold Top Dog

    snownose

    AgileGSD
    Why should it be stopped just because some out of state people, who don't know a thing about mushing don't like it?

    I don't want the race stopped....but, hey.....some improvements would be nice....why cause undue pain and discomfort to dogs when it has nothing to do with the original race and is just something than man cooked up?

    So to prevent the race from stopping, don't you think the "improvements" need to be on the fast track.

    • Gold Top Dog

    I didn't really know squat about the race before yesterday, when I started wondering and reading about it. But I have formed an opinion based on what I've been able to find. And my opinion is that the race should be changed, NOT stopped. And I believe these changes should be initiated by the International Sled Dog Veterinary Medical Association, not some external force or the law.

    Snownose, thank you for bringing this out for discussion and education. You make some excellent points.  Yes

    I have some comments about some of what I have read in this thread:

    HoundMusic
    The death itself was an act of God - there was no negligence involved. It's a risky sport

     

    I disagree that it was an act of God. If that's the case, we could leave our dogs out in the sun in Arizona to check their stamina and perseverance and claim the same. Pushing a dog to its physical limits and then claiming its death is an act of God is a bit of a cop out, IMO. 

    It IS a risky sport. One that the dog doesn't sign up for. Sure they love to run. But do they love to run all day, every day for 10 days in horrible, dangerous conditions? I don't think we can make that determination. Wouldn't they prefer to curl up in front of a fire on or about day 3?

    DrOgreys
    Any human endeavor which involves our unwilling, lesser creatures for the purpose of sport, entertainment, or greed is indefensible.

     

    Does that include agility? Fly-ball? Showing dogs? Tracking, schutzhund and other dog sports? Who makes the determination that the dog is "unwilling"? I was also heavily involved the the Greyhound AR/PR (anti-racing/pro-racing) debate for a time. And, as usual, I ended up in the middle, neither AR nor PR. I determined that some people really love their dogs and some really see them as $$. But there's no doubt that those dogs love to run. You can't push a greyhound down the track, just as I'm sure you can't push a husky down the trail.

    dgriego
    Greyhound racing is non dog people, using an animal for the purpose of greed and gambeling, similar to dog fighting. The owner or trainer has no repore with the dogs, they are tools.

     

    This is NOT true. You are grossly misinformed. I know plenty of racers who adore their dogs. Most do, actually. The AR "fanatics" in Greyhound racing are no more reliable than in any other dog sport. Wink

    dgriego
    IMO it is an insult to compare this type of racing to the racing of greyhound.

     

    It's actually very similar. The dog is being "used" to perform for sport, entertainment and monetary gain, doing what the dogs love to do. Not all owners take the best care of their dogs and when they can no longer run, there are those questionable people who don't do right by the dog, but most owners take exceptional care of their animals. They put a lot of money into them and benefit from having healthy, happy dogs. It's very similar.

    The total Iditarod purse is nearly $1 million. The winner gets &70,000. 

    AgileGSD
    It is risky and is risky for the humans as well.
     

    But the humans sign up for the risk. They also sign up the dog. Surely you see this point? I would say that yes, the dogs love to run. But like my GSD, they might run to their detriment. I have to step in and say, "enough" when he's panting so hard and fast. I take this dog on as a responsibility and it's MY job to make sure he stays healthy, sometimes against his own judgment.

    I don't buy that because the dogs love to run, that it's okay to take advantage of that trait and let them run to their death and then say, "Well, at least he was doing what he loved."  

    rwbeagles
    the AR's are all over this one and they'll move on to OTHER sports including those poor dogs being forced to climb, jump, and tunnel against their wills.

     

    This is a very REAL possibility! TRUE AR people (very few of which I've seen here and certainly not snownose) are bound and determined to save the animals of the world from ever feeling any discomfort or hearing a harsh word, much less doing anything that we might find in the least entertaining. That's not what I'm seeing here for the most part.

    rwbeagles
    Smart dog people stand together.

     

    True, but smarter dog people police their own, to make outside intervention unnecessary and unjustified. We don't see dogs dying from agility.

    AgileGSD
    Why should it be stopped just because some out of state people, who don't know a thing about mushing don't like it?

     

    Who here is saying it should be stopped? I don't personally think it should be stopped. I think that would be a shame. But what does being out-of-state have to do with anything? There are people in the deep South who think it's nobody's damn business that they fight their dogs. Why should hog-dog fighting be stopped just because some people from the North, who don't know a thing about it, don't like it? Google hog-dog rodeo. It's all a matter of perspective. Perhaps Alaskan people have a different perspective on mushing, but I can tell you, I don't think much of a race whose very fundamental nature and purpose is to run a dog in harsh conditions to test its absolute limits.

    Surely some changes could be made without damaging the integrity of the race:

    - Put limits on the number of hours a team can run in any one day.
    - Put limits on the total number of hours each dog can run
    - Expand the time required for vet checks.
    - Double up on the required extended layovers.
    - Reward teams whose dogs have the best vet checks (as is done in Horse Endurance)

    As I see it, there are MANY things that could be done that would improve the conditions of this race. I just don't know why people aren't willing to consider it and balk at the idea of slight changes as if PETA herself were taking over the world...

    There's my 2 cents for what it's worth.  

    • Gold Top Dog

    FourIsCompany
    As I see it, there are MANY things that could be done that would improve the conditions of this race. I just don't know why people aren't willing to consider it and balk at the idea of slight changes as if PETA herself were taking over the world...

     If you follow what is going on with legislation, you'd know that we are getting ever closer to PETA and other AR groups taking over the world. Or at least making huge changes in the breeding and ownership of pets.

      Over the years AR propaganda has slipped into the thinking of otherwise reasonable people, swaying even much of the "general public" into believing at least some of their info. More and more people who breed dogs are the bad guys - evil, greedy people making tons of money off their poor dogs. I have lost track of how many times I have heard just some average pet owner tell me they don't think dogs should be bred until shelters are empty. Or that there should be laws restricting breeding. Or that anyone who wants just a pet has no reason to buy from a breeder. More and more it is being accepted that we are not our animal's owners but their "guardians". Limit laws need to be in place to "prevent hoarders" (which would be like putting a law in place to prevent mental disorders).

     This stuff may seem minor but if enough people believe that sort of thing, it makes it much easier to get restrictive laws passed. People start to believe that while the laws seem a bit harsh "they are needed to protect animals". In a similar way, AR groups are attacking dog sports and for now, it is most often dog sports which dogs are being bred to compete in such as sledding or feild trials (that actually includes several things AR is against - hunting, using dogs for "entertainment" and breeding dogs!). Like I said - divide and conquer.In a way it worked with dog breeders - what with all the fighting among themselves about who is and who isn't a responsible breeder and finger pointing say "well she is a puppy mill". While dog breeders are busy with such things, AR is busy trying to put laws in place to stop or greatly limit what they ALL are doing.

     Anyone who has any interest in purebred dogs might want to check out this article on the subject: http://www.dpca.org/BreedEd/gathering_storm.htm

    If you are interested in learning what is going on and keeping up to date with it, I suggest the yahoo Pet_Law group. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/pet-law/

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    snownose
    I wanted to add that this year the winner had an average speed of 4.88 miles per hour....now, he needed to cover over 1100 miles in just under 10 days.......so how many hours were these dogs running each day?

     

    AgileGSD...have you done the math on the above statement?

    My calculations bring me to over 20 hours a day these dogs have to run to cover that distance.......10 long days...... you feel comfortable with that?

    • Gold Top Dog

    snownose

    snownose
    I wanted to add that this year the winner had an average speed of 4.88 miles per hour....now, he needed to cover over 1100 miles in just under 10 days.......so how many hours were these dogs running each day?

     

    AgileGSD...have you done the math on the above statement?

    My calculations bring me to over 20 hours a day these dogs have to run to cover that distance.......10 long days...... you feel comfortable with that?

    4.88 mph is based the elapsed total time it took to run the race including the time spend resting.  That doesn't mean that they were only going 4.88 mph as their average running speed while they were moving.