20 People, Gunshot End Pit Bull Attack

sillysally

There is no reason and no excuse for ANY dog under ANY circumstances to be allowed to run free unsupervised.  People should be able to have their own animals on their own front porches for the love of Pete, without having to worry about them being attacked/harassed, etc by someone's loose dog.

That is the bottom line. I have the grandkids living with me. If a Pit moved into the neighborhood I would have to keep them confined to house and back yard for play time. I know that sounds really reactionary but truly folks down here just don't seem to care . You meet people in th epark or at softball games with beautiful Pitty pups and they are concerned about allowing them to socialize. It ruins the dog one man claimed.  Another game last summer found me sitting next to a group of kids, all related I assumed. They had a goreous blue Pit on a lead, about 3 months old. He flirted and parnced having a good time. Another person came up to pet the pup and the kids gathered him close telling the man no , When he left they were saying to each other, that's good that man listened, otherwise Paco would have to eat gunpowder again !

I could just weep for the ignorance. Children and good dogs belong in thier front yard and one the porch.

Bonita of Bwana

Bonita, I would hope you would judge a neighborhood pit as you would any other dog - on a case by case basis. I can't deny that there are a disgusting number of pit owners who have no idea what they're doing and shouldn't own a goldfish, let alone a dog. It breaks my heart to have people encouraging pitbulls to be antisocial to people, and breeding pitbulls who are aggressive towards people. BTW, as you know RR's have a reputation among certain people as tough mean dogs, and if RR's become the next pitbulls do you want to be judged by your wonderful ridgebacks or the badly bred nutcases being crippled by the ignorant? No!

Kelliope, in a pitbull yes I expect that dog aggression is possible. I also expect pitbull owners to know this, and keep their dogs safe. I have zero tolerance for a pitbull who displays aggression towards people.

About hunting dogs - it is widely said that you can't trust a sighthound, trained or not, to ignore running prey. Shall we ban sighthounds too?

I lived in fear for a year and half because of my neighbor's bearded collie, who was threatening my daughter. And roaming the streets. Roaming is the problem. Irresponsible owners are the problem. Dogs with certain drives are not the problem. 

 Most dogs that are not taught otherwise will chase livestock. It is a natural thing for even the most domesticated dog to chase something that is running from him. That does not mean that we allow dogs to chase livestock.

dgriego

 Most dogs that are not taught otherwise will chase livestock. It is a natural thing for even the most domesticated dog to chase something that is running from him. That does not mean that we allow dogs to chase livestock.

While I said in an earlier post I would have to change our life style should a pit move in the neighborhood I should have been much clearer. It is the folks in our corner of the world that own pits, not actually the breed. They brag about the fighting lines and put the macho huge spiked collars and truck towing sized chains on them.  Currently there are only a few dogs that run our neighborhood. A Shtz zu Llasa furball and a mix that is most likely dal-lab-shepard , the small one is annoying , it potties everywhere and the bigger one slinks about nervous and worried.  When either comes out I insist the kids and my old girl come back in or an adult sit with them.  We live on a cul de sac and once upon a time it was pretty safe , not so much any more I am sad to say.

I know not all pit owners are ignorant rednecks or drug dealers but sadly down here it is pretty much the standard ... For a short time some of the middle class types bought them as pets, but insurance dealt that a blow when many companies made the cost so high or simply not provided. Then the dogs end up back with the slimier folks who want the muscle not the heart.

Our breed is a prey driven hound. We have to educate owners from day one about the chase.  Untrained a RR can take down livestock. They were genetically engineered to hunt cloven or hoofed prey. Antelope, wild boars all were part of the lion hound's hunting ability.  As a breeder if I don't educate I am unleashing a deadly animal in the world.  We go out of our way to screen and place with utter care.  I can not count the offers I have had over the years to cross our Ridgebacks with Pits to make a stronger and smarter Cur. 

It is sad really. I see the pits at shows, elegant and sweet they crave attention and can be very flashy. The personality is touching. Then I see the pits in our area. They aare dirty or dusty depending on the weather. They stand in the yard on thier chain starring at passerbyers  with an unemotional gaze. It is chilling.  Should you walk up on a yard with one hidden away in the bushes you are rushed to the end of the dog's chain where they come to a neckjerking stop by the chain. There is no sign of what once may have been a beautiful loving pup, this is a serious deterent to any one coming into that yard.  Thief or Lawofficer.  And the "old dog "men who gather at Hardees in the morning for thier breakfast and coffee sit and discuss the right amounts of gun powder etc to mix in the dog' s food to make then meaner faster... And don't get me started on the 1 or 2 in the bed of a pickup truck bouncing about with out protection,  and creating a huge ring around the truck in a parking lot because they don't seem trustworthy about staying in it .  

I wish we could outlaw the owners here not the breed, I know that makes no sense but it is the ignorant chump on the higher end of the lead that is the problem. It kills me to see any dog on a chain.  And we won'y go into the flack I have gotten from non dog folk who can't believe our Florida room is now a dog room.  They seem to think I am nuts anyway.

I think the worst of all of this is last night I could not sleep, I was thinking about the terror both dogs must have felt. Even though he had been the aggressor you have to know the Pit had to have been terrified when the  crowd turned on him.  It is tragic all around. And no owner will ever step up.... they didn't care enough to protect the dog and neighborhood they aren't going to rush to pay for damages.

Bonita of Bwana

It is one of those things that turns my stomach upside down and makes me clench into a ball of fury is what people are doing to pitbulls these days. It is wrong and disgusting to do that to any dog, but to such a classically human friendly dog .... ugh. It is a perversion of these poor dogs, and the bad breeding is just as bad. Badly bred pits who easily turn on people have no place. None. 

Dog_ma I can't agree more. Some people should never be allowed to have pets let alone breed them. It is when I read an article like this that I think All AR fury can't be totally wrong. No I don't support them and I don't want them in my home. But Somehow we have to make a difference someway....  We donate heavily to our breed rescue , the local shelter and are part of the Underhound Railroad.  We transport , pull and I whelp for both.  It tears me up to see a dog so ruined. Our rescue picked up an adult from a farm, it was beautifully bred but they decided to get a couple of small terriers who tormented him horribly ... Thier vet convince them to rehome the big boy. The rescuer who pulled him wrote he was nearly comatose with fear , so unsocialized he broke her heart at he way he shook and resisted coming out of the crate. I have worked in the healthindustry for most of my life and the only thing that tears me up more is the way some folks treat thier kids. or elderly parents....

Stupid People Shouldn't Breed !!!

Bonita of Bwana

Kelliope

I seriously cant beleive you can sit there and say your in favor of BSL. Being a dog owner and knowing the joys and comforts of having a dog in your life and being able to support such a awful law is extremely sadening. It really makes me question humanity these days. BSL does not work. Spay/neuter laws DO! If your so adamant about helping the issue.....which in turn helps all dog owners then maybe opening your mind to BSL alternatives might appeal to you. Here are some recent articles about the failure of BSL.

http://www.thedogpress.com/SideEffects/side_effects_leg_01.asp

http://network.bestfriends.org/stopbsl/news/19432.html

http://flip195.wordpress.com/2008/02/05/why-bsl-does-not-work/

Can you really sit there and tell me my dogs should be taken away from me? My dogs would most likely kill small animals......as do many other breeds. I understand their ability to do harm is considerably greater but I HAVE taken steps to ensure they will never get loose. Why do you think responsible owners should be punished for irresponsible people? Why are you so quick to support BSL before any other solutions?

Seriously....look at my dogs and tell me you'd support the gov. ripping them out of my home.......

Humans made them the way they are today.....shouldnt we fix it?

OT, but AL that last picture, of the blanket dogs, is so cute it makes my head hurt. 

If you read my post - I am not in favor of BSL, though with some attitudes of dog owners, sometimes I feel I am left with little other options.  When dog owners (not saying you do...just I have been hearing this a lot) keep excusing dog on dog aggression as "normal" prey drive and therefore not such a big deal - well, it leaves me, the owner of two very sweet and defenseless dogs with not much choice.  I put the statement in there purposely to drive home the point that people keep saying the owners are the problem not the dog, and I am not disagreeing, but there is more to it than that - no one should have a loaded time bomb in their backyard that if it escapes runs through the neighborhood and eats the neighbor's dog.  And I am not talking pits here.  I have always had big dogs in the past.  And little dogs.  Together.  I have had pit bulls and my sister still does and have always loved them.  However, more and more I keep hearing dog owners that this is just "natural" prey drive, which I don't think there is much use for in most of today's society and living conditions. 

Dog-ma even posted this:

Do you feel the same about prey drive? Are dogs more valuable than bunnies, or kitties, or ducks? Prey drive is bred into certain dogs, on purpose. A propensity towards dog aggression has been bred into certain dogs, on purpose. For some breeds, dog aggression is normal.

To which I answered:

Yes, I do have a problem with prey drive especially depending on where you live.  Dogs bred for high prey drive don't have much of a purpose for the average family who is looking for a pet.  And I would guess the vast majority of dogs are family pets - not hunting warriors.  In this day and age it isn't really needed by most people.

We all have a responsibility to each other in our communities and I am real tired of having to walk my dogs with my heart in my throat due to the number of dog aggressive dogs we encounter.  I guess that's why we don't usually allow people to have pet lions. 

Living in town with a dog you can't trust not to break out of your yard and kill the neighbors dog or cat is not cool and should be criminal imo.  Accidents happen.  Doors get mistakenly left open.  Fences get broken.  Sorry, but I've seen way too many maimed and injured and dead pets to think otherwise.  Dogs living amongst other people in close quarters need to be socialized and conditioned not to go after and kill things.

 I have seen many well trained hunting, herding, working dogs that understand they are not allowed to run off and kill things.  It's a matter of training, conditioning and socializing.

People being tolerant of dog on dog aggression is nearly enough for me to be in favor of BSLand believe me I am much opposed to it usually)and not because of breed, but because dogs past a certain size can do some real damage to someone else's beloved pet.  And if owners have the attitude that it's "natural" then I guess BSL is the only choice someone like me has.

The bottom line is that there are many people with dog aggressive dogs who refuse to realize that it is a serious problem.  And that is not fair to the rest of us.

I hear ya Kelliope. This situation is so far out of hand I cant imagine any positive future for this breed BUT again its sad to see other dog owners give up on the breed and immediatly approve BSL before anything else is tried.

As a pit bull owner I rather register my dog and even pay a annual fee to ensure my dog are welcome in my community. This would defintly weed out the bad owners.......for example if a pit bull is seen in town and isnt registerd as a potential aggressive dog then the owner should face fines or penalties. OR a mandatory spay/neuter for specific trouble breeds who are not show or working dogs. Bad guys are not going to pay these fines and will eventually look elsewhere for a differnt breed. However this would only ensure a different breed would be subjected to the horror the pit bulls face today.

Do you remember 50 years ago when pit bulls were admired and adored as family pets?

Petey from The Lil Rascals was a pit bull on the set and never hurt a child.

kelliope

Yes, I do have a problem with prey drive especially depending on where you live.  Dogs bred for high prey drive don't have much of a purpose for the average family who is looking for a pet.  And I would guess the vast majority of dogs are family pets - not hunting warriors.  In this day and age it isn't really needed by most people.

That's interesting you would say that.  Sighthounds and Scenthounds have been bred for centuries, and in some cases for thousands of years to have precisely that:  high prey drive, and fine tuned hunting instinct.  If you ask anyone that owns a sighthound they'll tell you that there is no finer pet, the same with scenthounds.  Those high drives and the independence that accompanies those drives make a worthwhile challenge for training, but a very rewarding and loving experience as well. 

High Prey Drive usually accompanies High Play Drive-and that makes for a fun family pet as well.

I would encourage you to meet a few greyhounds, whippets, coonhounds, bloodhounds and then rethink your statement.  Oh and even wonderful dog like the Beagle is a wonderful high prey drive hunting dog.

I have worked closely with my mom in animal rescue my whole life.  I am very familiar with a great number of dog breeds and mutts.

My riding instructor had 3 whippets.  I am well aware that they are wonderful dogs.  I have said repeatedly that I am talking about people excusing dog on dog aggression as high prey drive.  The whippets I knew could have gotten loose from their yard and never hurt a single animal or person.  In fact we used to take them out (unleashed back when that was allowed) on trail rides with us.  They never hurt a single animal.  Obviously she was able to socialize them, condition them and did not have a ticking time bomb in her backyard.  When I was a kid there was a German Shorthair at our barn.  He was my best friend and never showed any aggression or prey drive to any animal.

When I was growing up everyone's dogs were loose in our area.  We lived in a fairly affluent area with 2 acre parcels.  Dogs of all sorts came to visit.  We had St. Bernards, other dogs visiting were Newfies, Pyrenees,  Collies, Labs, Mutts, GSDs, etc.  Oh and the neighbors totally loveable Doberman.  All these dogs were out all the time and there were never any dog deaths or even fights.  Now, obviously these days, loose dogs are not acceptable today, but it does happen.  WHEN it happens, imo, no one should have a dog that kills or mauls the neighbor's dog (or cat for that matter).  During that same period of my life, we did have a neighbor who had two vicious white GSD.  They were locked away in a kennel and their garage.  Those dogs got loose one day and killed our dog while our dog was on a leash.  My sister and I were completely traumatized by the incident.  Of course our dog didn't die right away.  He suffered for several hours at the vet's before he finally died while we tried to save him.   Too many people these days are excusing dog-dog aggression as somehow not being as important as human-aggression.  I think it is nearly as important because it can cause great trauma and grief also.

 Again, my point is this - everyone keeps saying that the real culprit here is the owner of the pit because the dog was loose - which I agree with to a point.  But I also think it is irresponsible and reprehensible to have a dog no matter how well you think you have him contained, that if it got loose would do what this dog did. 

And my step sister has taken in several Beagles.  Not one of them, if they ever got loose, would kill or attack a small dog or cat or child.

AuroraLove

I hear ya Kelliope. This situation is so far out of hand I cant imagine any positive future for this breed BUT again its sad to see other dog owners give up on the breed and immediatly approve BSL before anything else is tried.

As a pit bull owner I rather register my dog and even pay a annual fee to ensure my dog are welcome in my community. This would defintly weed out the bad owners.......for example if a pit bull is seen in town and isnt registerd as a potential aggressive dog then the owner should face fines or penalties. OR a mandatory spay/neuter for specific trouble breeds who are not show or working dogs. Bad guys are not going to pay these fines and will eventually look elsewhere for a differnt breed. However this would only ensure a different breed would be subjected to the horror the pit bulls face today.

Do you remember 50 years ago when pit bulls were admired and adored as family pets?

Petey from The Lil Rascals was a pit bull on the set and never hurt a child.

Thanks AuraLove!  That's all I'm asking for!  I will probably NEVER be truly in favor of BSL, but sometimes you have to make a wild statement to get your point heard.  AuraLove, your dogs are beautiful, and no, I'd never want to see them taken from you.  It's just such a sad situation all around.

Thank you for your civil reply but its 100% ridiculous to say that any other loose dog excpet a pit bull would never kill a small animal. Its hilarious to hear you say you know none of your dogs EVER got ahold of a rabbit, squirrel or bird. Should I bore you with my stories of being attacked by a chi when I was younger? They are vicous too and just because they cant do the same damage as a larger dog dosnt make them any nicer....its the owners who coddle and baby them in thier pink sweaters......see its the deed not the breed.

 WHAT other dog besides a pit bull has been awarded with a medal of honor?

http://animalfarmfoundation.org/item.php?item=68

Did YOU know that Hellen Keller picked pit bulls as her favorite breed because of their smarts?

Have you seen this test yet? Keep in mind a lot of dogs look like pit bulls

http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html

You make us have to defend our dogs and it really sucks. Its sucks not being able to relax and haev our dogs accepted

And I'm sorry if this topic has been beaten to death but while its just a small topic to you its what I live everyday. I'll stop now and thank you for trying to be open minded.....and the compliments on my babies. They truly bring me so much joy