Peta's 2006 shelter kill rates. (97%)

This does not supprise me in the least, saddens, greatly.

If you read PETA literature closly, they do not believe dogs and cats should be kept as pets, not just pit bulls.

What's Sue Sternberg's kill rate?  Anyone know?  She's been accused of murdering many dogs too.  I like her principles and her teachings... but from what I hear... is that she's very strict on which dogs get adopted.  The trainer at our shelter says a lot of dogs we adopt out would be euthanized at her shelter in upstate New York. 

ShelterDogs

She's been accused of murdering many dogs too

I think murdered is a very strong word used here. The job of a shelter behaviorist is to make sure that the dogs that are leaving the shelter do not pose a danger to the public. I'm not sure who the trainer you are refering to is, but please choose your words carefully.

erica1989

ShelterDogs

She's been accused of murdering many dogs too

I think murdered is a very strong word used here. The job of a shelter behaviorist is to make sure that the dogs that are leaving the shelter do not pose a danger to the public. I'm not sure who the trainer you are refering to is, but please choose your words carefully.

Sue is controversial, but I have met her socially and taken seminars with her - you won't find a person who is more concerned with trying to make the shelter the FIRST place people look when they want a dog.  Unfortunately, to do that means that the shelter has to be a place where a family can go to get a great family dog.  Not a biting dog, not a "project" dog, but a dog that will be safe with their kids, and their neighbors' kids.  Until we get to a point where no good dogs are dying, her feeling, I suspect, is that we should not be spending the time and resources on rehabilitating dogs that are too much of a problem to go to the average pet home.   If you are a strict "no kill" person, and want to save them all, that's great - but where are you going to place them all?  Do YOU want to live with a food guarder that might kill your other dog?  Do you want the dog that has so many health problems that you need a second job to pay the vet bills?  How about a fear biter that will put holes in your child's face because you made the mistake of bringing your kid to visit a friend - after some shelter adopted that dog out to them because it was going to an all adult household? 

The issues surrounding sheltering & rescue are complex.  But, badmouthing someone like Sue, who has also made great contributions to sheltering (do you know about Training Wheels?), by calling her a murderer is not helpful.   No one likes high kill rates, but comparing Sue to the likes of the PETA fanatics is neither useful nor accurate.

spiritdogs

Unfortunately, to do that means that the shelter has to be a place where a family can go to get a great family dog.  Not a biting dog, not a "project" dog, but a dog that will be safe with their kids, and their neighbors' kids.  Until we get to a point where no good dogs are dying, her feeling, I suspect, is that we should not be spending the time and resources on rehabilitating dogs that are too much of a problem to go to the average pet home.

Sound like she has stricter definitions that Winograd does and he gets blasted regularly when he states that not every dog can be saved.

erica1989

ShelterDogs

She's been accused of murdering many dogs too

I think murdered is a very strong word used here. The job of a shelter behaviorist is to make sure that the dogs that are leaving the shelter do not pose a danger to the public. I'm not sure who the trainer you are refering to is, but please choose your words carefully.

That's not me saying this.  This is what I have read and heard, and the word "murder" was used.  I didn't say "she murders dogs."  I said "she's been accused of murdering her dogs."  I never said that I agreed with her critics.  And why would you know the trainer I work with to begin with?  What kind of question is that?  I happen to like Sue Sternberg and we use her teachings at our shelter.  I also have a couple of DVDs of hers.  You are the one that should be choosing your words more carefully. 

spiritdogs

erica1989

ShelterDogs

She's been accused of murdering many dogs too

I think murdered is a very strong word used here. The job of a shelter behaviorist is to make sure that the dogs that are leaving the shelter do not pose a danger to the public. I'm not sure who the trainer you are refering to is, but please choose your words carefully.

 

 

Sue is controversial, but I have met her socially and taken seminars with her - you won't find a person who is more concerned with trying to make the shelter the FIRST place people look when they want a dog.  Unfortunately, to do that means that the shelter has to be a place where a family can go to get a great family dog.  Not a biting dog, not a "project" dog, but a dog that will be safe with their kids, and their neighbors' kids.  Until we get to a point where no good dogs are dying, her feeling, I suspect, is that we should not be spending the time and resources on rehabilitating dogs that are too much of a problem to go to the average pet home.   If you are a strict "no kill" person, and want to save them all, that's great - but where are you going to place them all?  Do YOU want to live with a food guarder that might kill your other dog?  Do you want the dog that has so many health problems that you need a second job to pay the vet bills?  How about a fear biter that will put holes in your child's face because you made the mistake of bringing your kid to visit a friend - after some shelter adopted that dog out to them because it was going to an all adult household? 

The issues surrounding sheltering & rescue are complex.  But, badmouthing someone like Sue, who has also made great contributions to sheltering (do you know about Training Wheels?), by calling her a murderer is not helpful.   No one likes high kill rates, but comparing Sue to the likes of the PETA fanatics is neither useful nor accurate.

 

 Once again, *I* did not personally call her a murderer.  You should know that I like Sue Sternberg SpiritDogs.  You are the one that personally first told me about her and recommended I get her videos which I did.  I just thought I would bring her up, since she has been accused of doing the same thing.  And I wanted to see what everyone thought about that.  I never said "Sue Sternberg is a murderer!"  Both you and Erica are being very defensive here. 

ShelterDogs

I never said "Sue Sternberg is a murderer!"  Both you and Erica are being very defensive here. 

Your origional post refered to her as a murderer. Any my question was not at which trainer YOU use, but WHO is Sue. Spiritdogs answered my question, however.

ShelterDogs

Both you and Erica are being very defensive here. 

I was not being defensive, but now I am. To say that anyone who puts animals to sleep is a murderer is unfactual, and cruel. We do what we have to do, because it is our job to make sure dangerous animals do not end up in peoples homes. Yes, there are dangerous animals out there. Not every dog is savable. Not every dog WANTS to be helped. They don't understand what has happened to them - mommy left, and now they are sleeping on a slab on concrete. I am a certified EU Tech for the shelter that I work for. We do not  put many dogs to sleep, we try to work with them. HOWEVER. We do have to put animals to sleep. I have to do it. It's not the best job in the world, not the most rewarding, and certainly not the most satisfying. We all have different ways of dealing with the stress, and trust me, there is a lot of stress. Nothing makes what I do worse, than having some one call people that EU murderers. If you have never done it, then you have no room to talk.

Moderator note...

Be rescpectful, and remember you are responsible for the words you choose to put in your posts. Semantics aside, bear in mind that people read...they do not see you or hear you, and thus intentions can be misconstrued. I have every confidence posts on this thread can be heartfelt, educational, and passionate without being uncivil or accusatory. Thanks.

erica1989

ShelterDogs

I never said "Sue Sternberg is a murderer!"  Both you and Erica are being very defensive here. 

Your origional post refered to her as a murderer. Any my question was not at which trainer YOU use, but WHO is Sue. Spiritdogs answered my question, however.

ShelterDogs

Both you and Erica are being very defensive here. 

I was not being defensive, but now I am. To say that anyone who puts animals to sleep is a murderer is unfactual, and cruel. We do what we have to do, because it is our job to make sure dangerous animals do not end up in peoples homes. Yes, there are dangerous animals out there. Not every dog is savable. Not every dog WANTS to be helped. They don't understand what has happened to them - mommy left, and now they are sleeping on a slab on concrete. I am a certified EU Tech for the shelter that I work for. We do not  put many dogs to sleep, we try to work with them. HOWEVER. We do have to put animals to sleep. I have to do it. It's not the best job in the world, not the most rewarding, and certainly not the most satisfying. We all have different ways of dealing with the stress, and trust me, there is a lot of stress. Nothing makes what I do worse, than having some one call people that EU murderers. If you have never done it, then you have no room to talk.

 

 You did NOT listen to ME.  For god's sakes, LISTEN.  *I* did NOT call Sue Sternberg a murderer.  I said she has "been accused of being a murderer."  There is a big difference.  That is the exact word her critics used.  I am simply quoting them.  YOU have turned this into a big debate on euthanasia, when I was simply asking for opininos on what you thought of Sue Sternberg's critics.  I am very insulted that you don't think I understand what goes on in shelters.  I volunteer at a shelter that puts dogs down, so don't you patronize me about what shelter staff goes through.  I know full well what they go through.  I've  helped train and walk dogs for months and then only to seem them have to be put down.  You were being defensive from the get go, and you are still being defensive.  

Could we please get back on topic.  This thread is not about Sue Sternberg or what people said/didn't say or what others believed they said.  It is about an organization who some people think do great things for animals and these people support them fully and exposes that organization what they really do.  These euth rates are like this every year in fact I think that they are higher this year than ever.  There are many varied opinions in the shelter world but I don't believe anyone (except maybe PeTa) really wants to euth all the animals.  There just is argument as to how many can/should be saved and if the same amount of energy went in to finding solutions to home pets as arguing with each other there would be less need to euthanasia.

timsdat

There just is argument as to how many can/should be saved and if the same amount of energy went in to finding solutions to home pets as arguing with each other there would be less need to euthanasia.

Yes, and I'm just wondering how much time and effort do those who seem to be able to dig up any info they can, against PETA and the HSUS....some true and some not....some written by extremists from the other side and some not...doesn't matter though it is all posted truth or not. Well, I'm just wondering if these same folks put as much time and effort into finding a solution to the problem. How much fostering and looking for homes do they do for any stray that may be in need. Wondering how much effort, in their own time and money, they put into making sure that shelter animals in their community are spayed and neutered before being adopted.

nymaureen

Well, I'm just wondering if these same folks put as much time and effort into finding a solution to the problem

I have an answer to that, they don't! PETA believes that animals are not meant to be kept as pets. They believe that they are animals, and only that. By "saving" the animals, they mean that they would much rather have them released into the wild "where they belong".

HSUS and ASPCA do not donate money to your local shelter. They come and give advice on how to run things better, but that is basically the extent of their involvment. Your local Humane Society and SPCA do not get funding from those nation-wide orgainzations. When donating time and money, you are much better off going down to your local shelter and spending it there. Then you know your efforts are really going to the animals. Not saying that HSUS and ASPCA don't ever help animals, they just don't do it in the way that everything thinks they do.