Sadly...another dog attack

    • Gold Top Dog

    I love pits too, but I think you just said if you didn't want to deal with possible dog agression---doesn't that tell you something?  

    So suddenly dog aggression = human aggression? What? A well bred, well trained, well socialized pit bull is practically genetically incapable of human aggression. To avoid having to type it all up again, I'll just quote something I posted yesterday:

    a true, well bred pit bull would never, ever, under any circumstances, bite a human. The original fighting pit bulls were bred to have such strong bite inhibition that their owner could jump into the pit with two fighting dogs, and pry the jaws of one dog off of another with their bare hands without being bitten. This was actually proven to me the other day, and it was pretty amazing. Butter and Culley play very rough, and sometimes it escalates. Usually once they start to get too rough I crate them both until they have a chance to cool down.

    The other day, it escalated before I had a chance to calm them down. Culley pissed off Butter, and Butter chomped down on Culley's throat and would not let go. There was no blood, Butter just chomped and then went limp. Culley was choking and couldn't get away. Say what you want about what a bad idea it is to get in the middle of a dog fight- but Butter does springpole and we work on him letting me put my hands in his mouth and get him off of things no matter how focused he is. So, I treated this exactly as if he were playing springpole- I grabbed the top part of his jaw in one hand, the bottom part of his jaw in the other, and pryed them apart. I then told him "leave it" and he instantly sat, as if he were waiting for a chance to have another go at his springpole. It was all a game to him, and he NEVER redirected the bite onto me. Butter is only HALF pit bull, but it's a good half. I now know that if a fight ever occurs- and they DO occur, with six male dogs, no matter how vigilant you are- play just gets too rough and you're not always going to be quick enough to break it up- I can get in the middle of it and stop it without being injured myself. That is how proper pit bulls behave. 

    A pit bull that bites a human is a cur and should be culled, period, no questions asked. In my opinion, any pit bull that bites a human should be euthanized, and all dogs that even show signs of human aggression (barring certain circumstances) should be carefully evaluated and euthanized if necessary.

    Do you see now how, specifically in the case of pit bulls, it is just plain wrong to connect human and dog aggression?

    I know pitbulls can be sweet,loving dogs, but why have one when you have children. You've got your hands full with the children, let alone worrying about watching the dog.   So sad.

    Um, I don't see how the breed is important here, honestly. I could just as easily say "I know dalmations can be sweet,loving dogs, but why have one when you have children. You've got your hands full with the children, let alone worrying about watching the dog.   So sad."

    See how that works? Not very fair, is it? For the record, pit bulls were once known as "nanny dogs." I would trust a good, well bred pit bull around children over your average spastic lab (no offence to lab owners Stick out tongue) any day. It goes back to the above- well bred pit bulls should be all but incapable of human aggression.

    I'll use my own dogs as an example. A few months ago, we had a BBQ and had some people over. One of our friends recently had a baby, and I was a bit concerned, because my dogs are not used to babies. Some of them have never SEEN a human baby, as far as I know. Initially I just crated all of the dogs, but this friend and I got on the subject and we decided to carefully introduce Culley (my 2 y/o rescued APBT) to the baby, just to see how he felt about it.

    Now, Culley is THE most fearful dog in the world. He was pretty obviously beaten before we got him. Raised voices...heck, even the TV or someone sneezing too loud...terrify him. Sandom inanimate objects in your hand? Obviously you intend to beat him with them. Too excited about anything? That's the same as yelling. Slightly open doors? For some reason, he won't walk by them.  A door has to be all the way open, or all the way closed. Otherwise it's scary. Anything even slightly unusual about your appearance? Sheer terror. Culley spends his life cowering and peeing in fear of everything. We've only had him for 6 months, so maybe he'll open up one day. Maybe he won't. Either way, that's how he is.

    He is also what I would consider "dog tolerant." It would be perfectly fine with him if he never saw another dog again in his life, but as long as they don't get on his nerves he's fine with them. He'll even play with other dogs, if he happens to like that dog. But very minor things that most other dogs brush off will earn you a fight with Culley if you're another dog. He has been in his share of fights with my other dogs, usually involving play that gets out of control. Because he is a pit bull, and a decent one, I can always break up those fights. Still, he has a VERY short fuse with other dogs. That's not his fault, that's a breed trait and we're fine with that.

    He also has strong prey drive- but luckily, his only thought is to please me and I can get his attention and call him off of something no matter how focused he is. Still, he would kill small animals if he were ever around them unsupervised.

    SO- we have a very fearful, formerly abused dog who is dog aggressive under some circumstances, and has a fairly strong prey drive . How does he react to a scary, strange-smelling, noisy, human baby that strongly resembles a prey animal?

    Well, first, he sniffed it. (remember, we're HEAVILY supervising here and ready to jump in at any second. I may have kids one day, so he'd likely have to be introduced to a baby sooner or later.) He didn't know WHAT to think at first...what was this strange thing that had invaded his territory? Was it food? Was it prey? Possibly a friend?

    After a second of tail-between-the-legs-and-shaking sniffing, something just came over him. He started wagging. He stopped shaking. And then, he was licking the baby on the face. I would have NEVER thought this of Culley- but within minutes that baby was crawling all over him, pulling his ears, grabbing his fur, poking his eyes, hugging him, you name it...and Culley was just eating it up. I have NEVER seen him so secure and happy.

    Culley stayed with that baby for the rest of the day. We had 10+ people over, and Culley LOVES people..but he didn't even greet the guests that day...he just stayed right with "his" baby with the happiest, most serene doggy grin I have ever seen on his face. When another one of the dogs approached, he growled at them and made sure he was between them and "his" baby, even though the other dogs were just curious. It was amazing- but it SHOULDN'T have been, because THAT is how pit bulls are supposed to be.

    I have yet to see a pit bull attack that DIDN'T involve irresponsible owners. Every case seems to involve a loose dog, unsupervised children, an unsocialized dog, an unneutered dog, or a chained dog. I have yet to see or hear of a well bred, well socialized, well trained, neutered, vaccinated, sufficiently exercised, properly supervised, FAMILY (raised inside with people) pit bull biting or attacking a person. I just haven't.

    ETA: We never left him and the baby unsupervised, and we never would have under any circumstances- that is just majorly tempting fate. Sadly, too many people get too lax and fail to supervise their dogs and that's how these things happen. Yes, all dogs WILL bite- my point being that Pit Bulls specifically were bred to have greater bite inhibition with humans than any other breed I can think of. Any dog that so much as snapped at a human was culled mercillesly. Yes, human aggression is being bred into some lines by idiots who don't know what they're doing- usually by crossing in mastiffs and american bulldogs and other potentially HA breeds. Still, that is not indicative of a well bred pit bull. Pit bulls that bite people, except in self defense or in defense of their families, should be euthanized, no questions asked, IMO.

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    It seems, again, I am being criticized for my comments.   For your information,Dals ARE known to be loving, family dogs. They love to be with people and are very sensitive.  And for the record, I do not have small children I do watch my 2 grandchildren and their 2 dogs,one being our dals sister.I have never had a problem with the dogs and aggression.  I did not blame the breed, I blamed the owner for not being more watchful when you have children.If you can't watch your kids, you shouldn't be owning a dog---no matter what breed!!  

    Maybe this is why so many people leave this site-----pit bull owners jump down your throat--you dare not say anything wrong or you get beaten down for your opinion.There are others here who think you shouldn't have a dog if you can't take care of your kids and are not responseble. 

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    My comments were meant to  illustrate it is not so much the breed of dog, as it is heredity and environment,  It is not a breed specific problem.  My post was meant to respectful, if I failed in that attempt, you have my apologies.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Let's look at a few things from this article, which is a bit confusing.

    The child was killed by the family dog, in the family backyard. The child managed to sneak out of adult view. Tragic. IMO, yard dog, no socialization, no interaction, 2 year olds scream, bite and poke. Avoidable, certainly! Is the dog at fault, not completely.

    The neighbor has 3 kids, one of which has been bitten before by a different pit bull at some other point in time. I am confused about which dog she is referring to when saying "the kids saw it outside" could very well have been the dog that bit her child and not the one associated with the tragic incident.

    EDIT: This could be any dog, any breed.

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    maizysmom


    Maybe this is why so many people leave this site-----pit bull owners jump down your throat--you dare not say anything wrong or you get beaten down for your opinion.

     

    This is a public board.  You are free to express your opinion, but others are free to express their opinion about your opinion.  That's the way it goes.

    Personally, I don't think that someone should have kids or dogs if they are not responsible.  When it comes to my own philosophy with kids, dogs, and safety I am careful to a fault with both of my dogs (one pit and one lab).  I don't care how loving a dog is, stuff happens.  

    I was bitten by a GSD as a kid.  My step-dad left me in the truck when he went to a friend's house.  I saw the dog, got out of the truck, went into the fenced yard, hugged a strange dog, and got 21 stitches and still have the scars on my face.  The family who owned the dog had kids, and the dog was fine with then, but strange kids--not so much apparently.

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    Thank you, but it wasn't you It's just certain others who have attacked me before for this issue and I don't hate the breed.I do feel bad for the breed ,as they get a bad rap,just like the dals.  But I don't get so irrate about my dal---I realize any dog can and will bite.They must always be watched,especially with children---I can't stress this enough to my daughters. A dog is still a dog and can only take so much. A child shouldn't be near them when they eat,when they are trying to sleep, or to jump on them or ride them like a horse.   I got bit twice on the face by a bulldog when I was a little girl. It was a bulldog.Now when I think back,I see why she bit me---both times she was sleeping and I went down to her to hug her.  My parents had to take me to the emergency room and get stitches on my face,Both times, I was the one to blame, not the dog.This will happen with any dog,no matter the breed.   But again,thank you.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Yes you're right, so why do I get attacked for my opinion?I did not attack the breed and certain ones take it out of context and get their feathers ruffled because the discussion is about a pitbull.If it was about a beagle,I'm sure all the beagle owners wouldn't be jumping down my throat!It just seems certain individuals need to chill out and just take this as a discussion, not an argument.

    • Gold Top Dog

    maizysmom
    did not attack the breed and certain ones take it out of context and get their feathers ruffled because the discussion is about a pitbull.

    You said, and I quote "I know pitbulls can be sweet,loving dogs, but why have one when you have children." Surely you weren't suggesting that anyone who has children (or even children around regularly) should not have dogs of any breed?? No, you singled out pit bulls. Stop trying to change your tune now.

    And for the record.. I am not a pit bull owner, and as far as I can remember, I've never argued with you about pit bulls before.

    maizysmom
    If it was about a beagle,I'm sure all the beagle owners wouldn't be jumping down my throat

    If it was a beagle, I'm sure you wouldn't have said "I know beagles can be sweet, loving dogs, but why have one when you have children??" If you HAD said that, I would bet a million dollars the beagles owners WOULD have "jumped down your throat" (which is not what I see any of us as having done).

    For your information,Dals ARE known to be loving, family dogs. They love to be with people and are very sensitive.

    That's exactly the point! The exact same thing is true for pit bulls!!

    • Gold Top Dog

    Your last comment is why many people leave this site .There's no reason for being rude! and the reason I said pitbulls was because it WAS a pitbull. If it was a cocker, I'd say a cocker . And for that matter why did the person bring up this story---nothing was mentioned on her part about an irresponsable owner----it was brought up because it was a pitbull.    For the most part, the majority of people here are very civil and helpful, and can discuss things in a kindly matter. It's people like you and certain others who give this site site a negative attitude. I've seen many people join here only to leave because of sarcastic comments and certain rude people.

    • Gold Top Dog

     maizysmom - you don't believe people with children should own dogs?

    • Gold Top Dog

    If you look up Sept.10, you'll see you did argue with me and criticized my comments, which everyone is entitled to here.

    • Gold Top Dog

    maizysmom
    It's people like you and certain others who give this site site a negative attitude. I've seen many people join here only to leave because of sarcastic comments and certain rude people.

    I've been here for 2 1/2 years and have, as far as I know, never caused anyone to leave.

    It's people like you who make this site so FRUSTRATING. I bet many people have left because they were sick of being frustrated by pure IGNORANCE, not to mention people trying to act like they didn't say or mean something that's still written out in plain view on the previous page...

    • Gold Top Dog

    maizysmom

    If you look up Sept.10, you'll see you did argue with me and criticized my comments, which everyone is entitled to here.

    Why don't you link me. I don't have the time or will to sift through three months of posts to find where else I argued with your ignorance...

    • Gold Top Dog

    Did you ask erica1989 the same question?   I said IRRESPONSIBLE PEOPLE shouldn't have dogs when they can't take care of their own children!

    • Gold Top Dog

    You do have time to argue though, don't you!