Why I HATE animal rights idiots....

I hold my hands up and say that I could not do what you do, and I admire your strength. 

Can you write to them and try to get it changed back? Show them that you now have to support laboratory breeding. MORE dogs are dying now... That really does suck. I've always defended peta, but that is just ridiculous......

 This post just breaks my heart :(

 I am sorry that you are going through that.

Most of the time, extremes are not a good thing.
 

I think the issue is a) there are very few actual veterinarians in the legal arena, and if they are most of them are in vax development and food sfatey, etc, and b) this has actally been in place for at least a few years and every time it is brought up, the opponents say things like we are 'stealing other people's dogs' (even though the dogs are about the be euthed)

Other common arguements by the opponents is that

a) vet school purchasing animals from shelters will be less careful with the animal because the cost less (a research dog runs ~ 500$ a dog) - which is insulting and ridiculous. b) that shelter workers/dog catchers/etc may begin illegal taking or stealing dogs in order to get the money. Again ridiculous, I am sure it happens sometimes, somewhere, under the rarest of circumstances, but still...and c) people may be less inclined to turn their dogs over to shelters when they want to get rid of them, because they have ideas in their heads of vet school using dogs for terrible research projects, and instead just let the dog loose somewhere. That is the only reason I can see being valid, but it is not good enought o justify what happened.

 I spent a good hour last night sniffling instead of studying for a quiz because it kind fo all hit me at once. Euthanizing a sick dog, yes. But these ones? Young and healthy? I have so many "special dogs" out of that group, one that I know, that if, IF they have to go, I will be devastated.  Baha, Smack, Bubbles, Fannie, Mara, Maui, Airplane....I sort of consider them all "mine", as do the rest of the students.

I abolutely applaud people who campaign for animals welfare in a responsible way. But it times like these, when I believe people just do it more for ego and refuse to consider the implications of their actions, that my hackles go up.

I've run into the same thing regarding my cats.  My college has a lab.  The lab isn't owned strictly by the college, but it is located there.  We don't have vet tech or vet programs, but medical students from other places use the lab for a PALS course.  Basically, the lab contacts the county shelter and local rescues and takes in cats that are slated to be euthed.  Then, they go under anaesthesia for their spay/neuter (used to front declaw but don't any more).  While they are under, the PALS course comes in and they learn to intubate.  I guess the cat's throat is similar to a human babies, and obviously students cannot practice on real human babies.  This does NOT hurt the cat, the cat is already under for its speuter, and they've NEVER had a cat die or get injured in any way during this procedure.  Again, these are cats that were hours from being gassed.  The lab keeps them in sterile conditions but also works hard at socialization by having their workers play with the cats.  They also keep the cats in rooms, not locked in cages, so they are socialized with other cats.  When they have recovered and are healthy, they are adopted out, for free.  Oh and they also have their vaccinations, dewormer, FIV, and feline leukemia test first.  I have three cats that I adopted for free through the PALS program.  I have other cats and have fostered/rescued other cats and my PALS cats are by far the healthiest and most well-tempered.  My most recent PALS adoption is my girl Marijke who came from a litter that was so sick and malnourished they weren't even used for PALS, but the lab kept them and nurtured them back to health anyway.  If you go to PETAs site they will have articles totally lambasting the PALS program and how inhumane, cruel, and painful it is.  I challenge them to actually observe a PALS course, tour our facility, and come meet my cats, who would be ashes in a mass grave right now if PALS didn't step in.  I always check the site for new PALS cats and am on their list indefinitely.  If they have trouble adopting a cat I will gladly take it in forever.  Luckily, they've never had difficulties adopting out their cats.
 

Yeah, that is basically how the program used to work for us. We have cats also, including resident blood donor cats, and they are always adopted without a problem when their time comes because there are not very many of them.

We have adopted out shelter does to the community college's vet tech program before, with the understanding that IF these dogs cannot be adopted from the school, they will be returned. We sent a deaf pit bull to them, and watched her turn around amazingly with the new techniques they were able to use on her. They use laser training, like clicker training, only for deaf dogs. We sent them an aggressive, shy boxer/pit mix, and she turned around beautifully, and was adopted out to a loving family with a baby and other animals. I have NO PROBLEM with sending these animals to the college, they are more ready to deal with special and needy dogs. I think the school also rescues greyhounds from the tracks, and adopts them out afterwards, since these dogs are the perfect demo-dogs. Tolerant of ANYTHING and EVERYTHING.

whtsthfrequency

The dogs were used to teach students how to do injections, place catheters, anesthetize, do physical exams, etc. .

I hope you feel better today and I from what I read last night about practicing vetting procedures on live animals, there are more conflicts the students have to endure.  I would like to learn more of how vet schools use live healthy dogs so if you can expand on your statement, that would be appreciated.  I also want to let you know, that I dedicate a lot of my time to helping, rehabbing, and placing of shelter dogs, so I do feel for the dogs in this situation. 

I would like to learn more of how vet schools use live healthy dogs so if you can expand on your statement, that would be appreciated.

I've settled down a bit today so I can expand.

First years use the dogs to practice palpation - where physical landmarks for procedures are, how bones/muscles/ etc usually feel.

Second years use them to practice placing IV and urinary catheters, giving Im, sq, and intradermal injections, taking blood, and to practice physical exams (ie how to listen to the heart and lungs, do rectals, etc). The dogs are only allowed to be used a specific number of times for any procedure - ie a catheter can only be places twice in a day, only 4 jugular attempt may be attempted (2 per student) on a day, etc. After a lab, the dogs have specific rest periods, usually a week or so, where nothing else can be done to them - so they are not constantly being poked etc. We have usually 2-3 labs in a month with the dogs, and that's it for the year.

Third years use them for all of the above plus anesthesia and spay/neuter, and sticthwork after spay/neuter. The rest period for anesthesia is much longer than injections,around 2 to 3 weeks, even longer for surgery. They do not use the same dogs we (second years) do to minimize stress.

 All labs are overseen by four or so staff veterinarians who walk us through things, so if any problems arise they will be right there.

 Some dogs are also used in research. Currently we have hypothyroid dogs used for testing dog hypothyroid treatment (usually topical applicatiosn to deal with the skin problems), and some allergy research (again, for canine allergy advancement - mild to moderate allergens are placed in the skin and treated). No invasive procedures or terminal procedures are performed.

 We usually have about 50 dogs, which for a school of 360 students, is quite a small pool. The dogs are kept in individual runs, fed twice a day, and have the runs cleaned once a day during which they get to run around in the main aisle and play with each other. They all have names and all the kennel workers and msot of the research staff all know the dogs by name and personality. We have a volunteer dog-walking pogram run by the students, and usually the dogs get out for walks a few times a month (I know it doesn't seem like much, but it is better than most shelter dogs - the kennel workers simply do not have the time, and the students are in school 8 am to 5 pm and can only walk during "work hours" so we all try our best). So overall, to me, it is not a matter of how they are treated, it is just that honestly, they shouldnt even be here...we could have been saving some pre-euth shelter dogs.

Most of our dogs are very well-adjusted. They are sweet, have no stereotypies, eat well, etc. Occasionally we have a very shy one, and the kennel workers take special time with them. And like I said, the vast majority end up being adopted (since we as students work so closely with them, we inevitable end up falling in love with one or more!) by students or researchers themselves. It is just those few....:(

This absolutely breaks my heart...and makes me want to break some heads.

Perhaps a sympathetic news reporter could do a story on your dogs and help build a public outcry? It is worth a try---see which tv stations do animal-friendly news and look for one that really loves the heart tugging "hook."  ("vet schools used to give death row animals a second chance---but now a new law intended to help animals means these homeless dogs will have no chance at all....story at 11.";) Get a gang of vet students together and write a letter to the news director/reporter at the station. Take photos of a few of the animals and write something about them---get some photos of successful adoptions and their stories. Line up people who have adopted and have them willing to be interviewed.

You get together a good packet of info and some heart-tugging photos/personal stories and a news station will take a serious look at your situation. Stress that the stuff being done to the animals is similar to the stuff done to people by student doctors and nurses in teaching hospitals...

A photo of an older dog happily living with a family and the caption is "11 yr old Sally was scheduled for euthanasia. Luckily for her she was chosen for the vet school program where she helped future vets learn things like how to properly examine a dog for lumps, take temperatures and blood pressure. Then she was adopted by the Smith family.....if it hadn't been for the vet program Sally would have died 7 year ago....

Seriously, if a law can be passed then it can be changed---for example, a provision could be made so that vet schools could have animals for "non-lethal" experiments.

Sorry I got a little wild with the ideas there---I just find this so upsetting. Shelter dogs will die and more lab dogs will be bred because of a bunch of people who react instead of think.

Best wishes in this difficult time.... 

http://www.pcrm.org/

http://www.pcrm.org/resch/anexp/pound_seizure.html

THAT is the whole problem...there are so many fallacies in that article I cannot even BEGIN....using data from twenty or so years ago also, in addition to extremely biased and ill-informed insinuations....maybe later tomorrow...

whtsthfrequency

http://www.pcrm.org/resch/anexp/pound_seizure.html

THAT is the whole problem...there are so many fallacies in that article I cannot even BEGIN....maybe later tomorrow...

So, how is your opinion more accurate than the opinions on this site? Do you have more experience,or are you privileged to more information?

I would really like to hear all sides......

So, how is your opinion more accurate than the opinions on this site? Do you have more experience,or are you privileged to more information?

I have both more experience because I actually work with these animals and work with the people who use and choose them, and am privilege to the information from the schools themselves that is not even mentioned in this article...they are using outdated information and only giving half the story - ie "researchers choose the most adoptable dogs" - yes, but we don't choose them until they are slated to be euthaned anyway ! It is not as if we walk in, pick dogs, and take them right there out from potential adopters noses.......whew just give me 24 hours, I am tiiiiired :) I will provide a list of countering information later.....