The Pit Bull Ban: Yay or Nay

ORIGINAL: IrishSetterGrl

ORIGINAL: alieliza

I can post many "sources" regarding pit bull temperament that says the exact opposite of the lawyer Q & A.

I don't see the point in this anymore. The same arguments are being repeated and reading things that have been said over and over again that I have already responded to is wasting time that could be spent playing with my intelligent, nonaggressive Irish Setters. People have resorted to personal comments and negative words about IS and myself because they apparently have run out of actual points to make. I still fully support the pit bull ban, and if one were enacted tomorrow in my town or my state, I would not lose a moment of sleep.

 
What? You're quitting? Come on, you haven't addressed my responses at all and I haven't made any snarky comments. I was hoping to have an honest to goodness debate with you.
 
Well, this has all been a big tease and my boozin', brawlin', blarney-stone lovin' Irish side is bitterly dissappointed.[sm=devil.gif]  Shame on you.
 
I'm signing off in a huff right now but there isn't an emoticon for it.
 

ORIGINAL: IrishSetterGrl
Actually, it is true that Irish Setters aren't naturally the smartest dogs out there. Fine by me. I still love 'em. []

 
and to your complaint about people addressing Irish Setters directly.... YOU said it.  I didn't.  In fact, I had no idea that Irish Setters were alleged to be "stupid".  I think my mom, who has always had Setters, might take exception to that.

ORIGINAL: sooner

So you've gone from "I'm sort of for pit bull bans." to "I still fully support the pit bull ban". You were obviously trolling by starting this thread and you've just outed yourself. Not to mention that you haven't responded to many of the valid points that were made.

 
When I wrote the OP, I said sort of because I did not want anyone to immediately jump up but to listen to what I was saying and then respond. I also don't think I realized how steadfastly I support the ban until I received the responses and was able to reflect upon my thinking. Now that I have responded to many arguments and these arguments are still being repeated, I do not care how someone decides to react. No I was not "trolling", for the 76th time. I didn't respond how everyone wanted me to, I stood by my position.
 
If someone would like to make a jot list of valid points (please no essays here, clear, concise statements would be easier to clear everything up) that I supposedly did not respond to, feel free....it's totally up to you. I'll try my best to respond clearly. But after that, I'm done. Debating this in unnecessarily exhausting.

ORIGINAL: mrv

Add all Irish setters were bred to be stupid...bred the brains right out of them

Dogs are not unpredictable, people are just clueless.

So, once you get rid of pits, you want to go after that rotts, then the shepherds,,oh and then my belgians,,,, oh dont forget the dobermans etc.

Oh that is right, we should all just own brainless Irish Setters.

Sorry that was somewhat unkind, and the moderator may choose to delete this post..However, the statements are no different in tone or content than the posts about bull breeds.

 
badrap, you may want to check this out.

It's interesting how one goes from "I want to debate" to "I am tired of debating" so quickly!
But the good thing is we all now know where you stand, and what you think about the Bully's owned by the members here, and what you think should happen to them.

I admit, I'm curious about YOUR response to what you quoted above....
 
And I'm also curious about why you haven't responded to any of my points.  If it's my FORMAT that you don't like, well, that's not really my fault.  Nobody here has made demands about YOUR format, and I think you owe us the same courtesy.
 
I will never sink to the level of personal insults, neither about an OP, nor about any dog in particular.  It is counterproductive to the cause, and I can see why you would take exception to it.

Far be it from me to do something like this.  I think you didn't READ my post because you don't want to take the time.  Yes, it's long.  But is directly related to some of your ideas about MY dogs.  Certainly, you don't owe me ANYTHING, but as an alleged dog lover, you owe it to the dogs to know what you're really talking about:
 
So far, you have refused to address:
 
The genetics of human aggression, and the impossibility of breeding for it in APBT and their cousins.
 
Your ideas about unpredictability.  Not with a LINK.  With ideas of your own.  What, specifically, does that mean?  All dogs send signals.
 
You have not addressed any of my alternative suggestions.

I'm also not sure that you are considering the implications of what you are doing here. 

I think your dogs are absolutely stunning.  I love them.  When you post pictures, I really, really enjoy them.  I don't care about how smart they are- it's completely irrelevant because it is absolutely clear to me that you love those dogs, and who could ask for anything more?  Their coats are lovely, their weights appear to be right on the mark.

You have, however, by decreeing that you wish for the death of my dogs, put me in the awkward position of not wanting to tell you that anymore.

What you have effectively done here is pit TRUE dog lovers against each other.  I wonder if you had considered that angle.

Why don't you just lay it out there?  What do you think of ME?  Because it actually sounds like you are making a very negative judgment about me based on the breed of my dogs, and I would be very, very careful about doing that.
 
Your posts insinuate that I cannot control my dogs.  Your posts insinuate that it is simply not possible for me to control my dogs.  Be careful with that.  I work very, very hard to maintain control of my dogs at all times.  I train and train and train some more.  I make educated decisions about my dog's interactions with other dogs.  Your posts lump me and my dogs in with a bunch of gun-wielding, dog fighting thugs, whether you came right out and said it or not.  If you want to talk about insulting people, you ought to consider the passive aggressive approach you have taken thus far.  You were SO insulted when someone commented on your dog, and yet you expect me to sit back and take the same type of insults on my character with nary a word?  Think again.

I just read all 5 pages of this thread...I also wish that the OP would respond to badraps post. Its almost the only one that I read that didnt' make me kind of angry at the sarcasm.
I am not at all for banning any breed,,,but I am for doing something about this breed, something has to be done,,,its getting worse and worse. More and more people are getting them...more and more people are becomming afraid of them... and it does seem that there are more and more stories about attacks by them.  And the shelters are filled with them?  Is it because people are afraid of them so they are not taking them?  So why are they being bred so much if that is the case? 
To me it doesn't matter in the least if they are real pit bulls or pit bull types.  What really makes that difference?  I don't believe that Pit Bulls are human aggressive either (I did have a Pit Bull type a few years ago...she lived to be about 16 yrs old)....but I don't want a dog around that is dog aggressive either... I want to be able to walk my dog without being scared to death that a dog is going to attack. Any dog!
Its too bad that passion felt in this conversation is bring out the worst in some posters. I think the ultimate is below:

You choose to own an Irish setter which is, IMO, on of the most feather-headed dogs on the planet. You are happy to own a beast which is best suited to taking up room on th eliving room couch and nothing more.  Ask this dog to do anything more in the show ring than conformation, and the breed AS A WHOLE fails miserably.  Since this dog is useful for nothing, why should it continue to exist? It adds nothing to society.  I have NEVER, EVER seen an Irish as a therapy dog, a service dog, a Search and Rescue dog or anything else BUT making its owner happy. Sooo, should this breed be allowed to continue its existance since it's not contributing anything useful? Perhaps not.

Breedism raises its ugly head again.  Open your mind to the fact that these dogs, like ALL dogs can be dangerous (yes, even your beloved Irish serters can and WILL bite) but, by the same token, the ALL can be wonderful additions to a loving family.

IrishSetterGirl, have you ever spent time with a Pibble? Owned one? Did you ever have a bad experience with a Pibble? BTW, I posted pro-Pibble links that didn't come from "pibblelove.com" sites. [] 

ORIGINAL: IrishSetterGrl

If someone would like to make a jot list of valid points (please no essays here, clear, concise statements would be easier to clear everything up) that I supposedly did not respond to, feel free....it's totally up to you. I'll try my best to respond clearly. 

 
No essays? Sigh. I'll ask some yes/no questions--except for the last.
 
Would you support restrictions on dogs over 40 pounds requiring owners to complete some kind of educational program? Yes or  No.
 
If all pb dog bites took place on the owner's property, would that change how you feel about banning pits?Yes or No.

Do you support making it illegal for criminals with violent backgrounds to own dogs? Yes or No.
 
Do you think rottweilers should be included in any breed-specific legistlation? Yes or No.
 

Also, I see what many of you are saying by everyone incorrectly identifying dogs as pit bulls. Maybe before a dog is seized and/or euthanized/whatever would be done under a ban, then a dog breed specialist can decide if it truly is a 'pit bull'?

 
What would you do if future DNA testing ositively identified the breed of all pit-type dogs involved in fatal dog attacks as american bulldogs or bulldog crosses?  What would you say to all the owners of Amstaffs, APBTs, etc., who were euthanized?
 

I can see that the "debate" is still going on.  I know that I cannot change the minds of people.  It's a God given right to have an opinion.  I just wish that before people jumped to conclusions about these dogs, that they would at least "try" to see the good side of them.  It doesn't matter to me whether or not you like the breed that I own.  What matters is that I DO like this breed and I am NOT willing to give my dogs up because the media has destroyed the reputation of this breed.  I personally don't like little breeds of dogs.  They bark a lot, but it's not place to say that someone should not be allowed to own one because it's got a big mouth!  Banning a breed is, IMO, like being racist.  Pitties are "love-puppies"  You saw the pic I posted earlier in the thread.  My daughter was only 2  years old when the pick was taken.  Does that dog look like it is actually going to hurt a human?  I have been bit and scratched by my cats more than a dog.  Does that mean that my cats are "dangerous" too?

I have no fear of pittbulls for my familes or my safety,although i wouldnt step into a yard with a snarling pit behind the fence. Howeever i am in fear of them for my dogs sake,and i own bull mastiffs!.If i'm out with my dogs and see a pit i will avoid them at all costs.I just am not prepared to take the risk of one of my dogs getting hurt or killed.Honestly,my dogs couldnt fight their way out of a wet paper bag and would probably roll over and allow themselves to be mauled [&:]

I hate,hate,hate feeling this way,but i have seen,heard and had bad experiences with pitts in regards to dog/dog aggression.

I think banning them due to human aggression is ridiculous,there are more bites caused by the yappy toy breeds then there are pitts,but we just dont hear about those..

My one and only worry is for my dogs safety.I know i have nothing to fear for my own safety.

ORIGINAL: Edie
My one and only worry is for my dogs safety.I know i have nothing to fear for my own safety.

Absolutely 100% warranted fear.  You will get no arguments from me. 

This is why, although my own dogs have not displayed the proverbial and feared aggression about which we are speaking, I do not allow my dogs to interact with any dog unless we already know them, and even then, never on a leash.  This is out of common courtesy for the known fear.

It is for this very reason that I support strong containment laws and their consistent enforcement, regardless of breed.  It is for this reason that I support the euthanization of the dog and felony charges against the owner for any attack that requires medical attention and happens outside the bounds of the contained area, regardless of the attacker's breed.  Subsequent to the felony charges, the owner would be barred from owning any animals and as a condition of parole, involuntary and unscheduled house visits would be in order.

What would you do if future DNA testing positively identified the breed of all pit-type dogs involved in fatal dog attacks as american bulldogs or bulldog crosses? What would you say to all the owners of Am staffs, APBTs, etc., who were euthanized?

 
Better be careful about DNA research.  They have already done it to find drug sensitivity.  I've heard of studies concerning a dogs size, fast running greyhounds, herding instinct.  Someday some bright researcher will be looking for a DNA link to aggression.  If they ever make a link look out.