What happens when you take your dog to the pound

I feel the potential unintended outcomes of this and other similar legislation warrant opposition.

It appears that neither of us will be able to come to agreement on anything other than to disagree. 

I notice how quickly the focus switches from the plight of the dogs in shelters , which is what my post was about, to defeating a mandatory S/N law that will inconvience some breeders, by costing them some money.

The issue is not costing breeders some money.  The issue is putting responsible breeders out of business and thereby impacting the health of a breed.  Responsible breeders are worried about covering their costs, not making a profit.

I agree with you about the need to stop commercial breeders, but this legislation requires breeders to compete with their dogs, and how many commercial breeders do that?

Read the legislation again.  Buy a breeders license and you are exempt from this competition.

ORIGINAL: janet_rose

I agree with you about the need to stop commercial breeders, but this legislation requires breeders to compete with their dogs, and how many commercial breeders do that?

Read the legislation again.  Buy a breeders license and you are exempt from this competition.

There is so much incorrect info on this bill, since it has been modified several times.

http://www.cahealthypets.com/

ORIGINAL: rwbeagles

 

And animal control officers aren't busy with rapists and murderers,

Then why does it take them so long to respond when someone calls about a loose dog I wonder? How strange. Seems the one commonality of AC's around the Nation...going by this forum of people all over the place...AC takes forever or is plain uninterested in helping dogs that are left out, in bad weather, barking constantly, loose dogs, etc.

 
Maybe because they are too overloaded taking care of all the animals already in the shelters?  Seems to me like a good reason for more spay/neuter - to reduce the number of animals that end up in the shelter.  Try volunteering at a municipal shelter to see what they have to contend with.  What governmental body funds your municipal shelter?  Are they forthcoming with funds to increase manpower to serve the public?  Or does the city counsel think it's more important to put pretty plants on the freeway median?  That's what happened in my town.  So see how thinly the ACOs are stretched, and whether their delays are justified or not. 

ORIGINAL: cyclefiend2000

Animal control officers can't do anything to stop irresponsible breeding practices right now

but doesnt this law in essence attempt to curtail ALL breeding practices (responsible or otherwise)?

that is the issue i think many people have with this particular law. not to mention the news story i saw a while back about dogs being bred in mexico and smuggled into the US (southern CA in particular) and being sold. would this law do anything to stop that from happening? or are there already laws in place that are not able to be enforced?
[linkhttp://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/01/0130_060130_puppies.html]http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/01/0130_060130_puppies.html[/link]

 
No, this law doesn't attempt to curtail responsible breeding practices because it has measures built into the law that allow such breeders to continue to breed.  If it were aimed at all breeders, it would say that ALL animals had to be altered.
 
There are already laws against smuggling dogs into So. California.  It has been a frequent news item on the local news channels.  I think it's unrealistic to expect that everyone will be caught, but if Animal Control (or the police) know that it's happening, they do shut it down and confiscate the pups.  There have been a few parks here where a bunch of these people set up shop, and that makes it easier to catch them.  But trying to catch someone that sells pups out of the back of their car, and is gone 5 minutes after making a sale, has to be a lot harder.  Luckily with the news coverage of the arrests that have been made, the public is learning how bad this situation is, and how unhealthy the puppies usually are.  Unfortunately, puppies tend to sell themselves, even if they are sick.  There will always be impulse buyers and soft-hearted people that can't walk away from a puppy in need.

ORIGINAL: janet_rose

I notice how quickly the focus switches from the plight of the dogs in shelters , which is what my post was about, to defeating a mandatory S/N law that will inconvience some breeders, by costing them some money.

The issue is not costing breeders some money.  The issue is putting responsible breeders out of business and thereby impacting the health of a breed.  Responsible breeders are worried about covering their costs, not making a profit.

 
But the law has provisions for responsible breeders to keep on breeding.  So what could their issue be besides for having to pay a little more for a license - something that in many areas, they should have had anyway?  Especially when they can raise the price of their puppies a little in order to cover their costs.

ORIGINAL: DogAdvocat

ORIGINAL: rwbeagles

And animal control officers aren't busy with rapists and murderers,

Then why does it take them so long to respond when someone calls about a loose dog I wonder? How strange. Seems the one commonality of AC's around the Nation...going by this forum of people all over the place...AC takes forever or is plain uninterested in helping dogs that are left out, in bad weather, barking constantly, loose dogs, etc.

Maybe because they are too overloaded taking care of all the animals already in the shelters?  Seems to me like a good reason for more spay/neuter - to reduce the number of animals that end up in the shelter.  Try volunteering at a municipal shelter to see what they have to contend with.  What governmental body funds your municipal shelter?  Are they forthcoming with funds to increase manpower to serve the public?  Or does the city counsel think it's more important to put pretty plants on the freeway median?  That's what happened in my town.  So see how thinly the ACOs are stretched, and whether their delays are justified or not. 

In the county where I live in Atlanta, which is the fastest growing county in the US and has almost 1,000,000 residents,  they have about 6 AC people to serve the entire county. When you factor in vacations, weekend shifts, etc,.. one AC person I spoke with says he has to sometimes drive 150 miles in one day, in heavy traffic just to pick up dogs and bring them back to the shelter. he told me that they could use twice as many people, but there is no budget for it. All the shelters in this area  are jammed to capacity, and dogs are usually kept about 5 days and then executed for lack of room.  

ORIGINAL: janet_rose

I agree with you about the need to stop commercial breeders, but this legislation requires breeders to compete with their dogs, and how many commercial breeders do that?

Read the legislation again.  Buy a breeders license and you are exempt from this competition.

 
I have read it, and one of the provisions of being licensed is a requirement to compete.

 

pay a little more

 
This right here...is pure 100% conjecture on your part. You have NO idea what breeder permits will cost in every city in California...thus you have no idea what exactly financial burden will be placed on breeders. It will be up to each city to determine the cost....and that cost will be base dupon their need for funding to enforce.
 
Bobsk8 you make a GREAT point...they now will have MORE laws to enforce with the same amount of people..unless of course they make the permits EXPENSIVE enough to fund that...and hmm...we're back to it being beneficial to mills and high volume people...and detrimental to those breeding responsibly. And the BYB's will continue on again, doing what they do, off the radar. Thanks for the quick connection.

I'd also add that there is no language I can see where the permit is described in detail as to be 'per animal' or 'per breeder'.

I would imagine the breeder permits would be very expensive. Here in los angeles, to licence an unaltered pet it is $150 and to licence an altered pet it is $10.

Thanks for that information,,,, Do you happen to know if there is real data with respect to the amount of compliance that exists?   Is there any data regarding the number of altered verses intact animals.  Is there a county website that might contain such information?
 
 I have heard differing numbers.  In some instances compliance with licensing requirements as low as 20 %.... If that is true, how can the argument be made that people will comply with mandatory spay neuter?
 
 

Yeah that's what i figured.
It's totally back door to no breeding period from home based folks. Hunte Corp is likely loving it. They would've been much better stating simply "no dogs or cats sold thru pet stores, shall be sold unaltered" and left it at that. I doubt anyone would've objected to that...but touching big business is verboten apparently...going after the little guy is much safer and cheaper.

You have NO idea what breeder permits will cost in every city in California...

 
 
In order to get intact permits under the breeder section a breeder must have a breeder permit from the local animal control agency. Very few jurisdictions in California have breeder permits. So, either this is an unfunded mandate that local jurisdictions create breeder permit programs, or it is a statewide ban on breeding. There is no requirement that local jurisdictions offer breeder permits.  from [linkhttp://saveourdogs.net/ab1634.html]http://saveourdogs.net/ab1634.html[/link]