Latest anti-Cali s/n bill letter

ORIGINAL: timsdat

"It is our goal to rescue breeding age Cavaliers from the horrors of puppymills"

And all they are doing is putting money in the pockets of the millers and auctioneers so they can repeat the cycle all over again.

 
That person and their group you mentioned is doing exactly the same, this maybe as they feel it was the right thing to do under that particular puppy mill circumstance which you and I do not know about. But really this is not a shelter selling interstate dogs topic as your trying to put it but a rescue uppy mill topic, and where the Californian shelter was just used in place of foster homes as they had no other alternative. And I feel it would have been quite crowded in the Californian shelter, and that maybe heaps better than what can be found in some of these uppy mills.
 

Remove all feral cats. After all stray cats are the majority of shelter intakes.

i agree. there are some organizations who are setting up feral cat colonies and managing them. the cats are trapped, spay/neutered, given shots and vaccinations, and returned to the colony. a caretaker puts food out for the colony each day and traps any new cats that arrive.

is this the best solution? i dont know, but at least it is proactive. the cat population is being put in check by spay/neuter and the cats get to live. otherwise, there are so many shelter cats there is no way a feral cat is going to make out of a shelter alive. plus this solution requires no new laws to be enacted.

this is the web site for the organization that is doing this in our area (they also provide a low/no cost spay neuter to pets as well)....
http://www.animal-allies.org/Programs.html

Public eduction. Promote responsible ownership.

 
This I agree with wholeheartedly.
 

Incentive to S/N.  Pay people to neuter their dogs.

 
While I personally agree that this is a good idea, I can see where many taxpayers would balk at the idea that they should pay for people to spay/neuter their pets.  If you can't afford to spay/neuter your own pet, then you probably shouldn't have one, right?

Strong enforcement of existing law. Leash laws, cruelty laws.

 
While I agree that these laws should be strongly enforced, I'm not sure it would have much of an impact on the issue of dogs/cats in shelters.

More availability of training resources.  After all these dogs in shelters had homes.

 
Yep, I agree with this too, but still don't think it'd have a huge impact.  Sure, some people don't know how to train a dog not to pee/poop in the house and get frustrated and surrender them, but I think there's already enough resources if people were interested enough to pursue them.  Many people don't take the responsibility seriously and I'm not sure training is going to help. 

If you can't afford to spay/neuter your own pet, then you probably shouldn't have one, right?

IMO, wrong.
I personally cannot at present afford to have my dog neutered.  And even if I could, chances are I wouldn't anyway (personal choice and reasons).  My dog has food, water, shelter, love, and training.
 
I am not a rich person...I'll probably never be a rich person.  I'm scraping to get by right now, and have been cutting out luxuries to feed my dog (and the internet is likely to go next >.<.
 
There are plenty of poor people out there who have pets that don't spay/neuter, and personally, as long as they are proactive in the pet's care, and aren't allowing it to procreate willy nilly, there's no reason they should be forced to/have to worry about altering their pet.
 
As the owner of an intact male, I do not allow him off leash unless we are in a fenced area, or an area where we are trialing in obedience.  I do not let him run off and impregnate any and every female in my eyesight or his nose...sight (lol).  I am responsible.  I have an intact dog.
 
Intact animals and responsibility are not mutally exclusive.

ORIGINAL: timsdat
Public eduction. Promote responsible ownership.
Incentive to S/N.  Pay people to neuter their dogs.
Strong enforcement of existing law. Leash laws, cruelty laws.
More availability of training resources.  After all these dogs in shelters had homes.
Remove all feral cats.  After all stray cats are the majority of shelter intakes.

California shelter intake and been steadily declining since 1990 and you know population has been increasing.  That is without S/N laws.  Current programs are working, enhance them and add more.

Sounds great Steve, I believe in the things you mentioned and where each component helps towards addressing the problems in shelters and the community, and I could add some more starting with mandatory microchipping where a dog or cat cannot be sold unless this had been done. Enforcement of existing laws is a key component to addressing problems, and ersonally I'd like to see Animal Control Officers doing more of these around California, particularly in areas where so many do NOT have dog licenses and there is the matter of vaccinations:-
[linkhttp://www.cityofventura.net/newsmanager/templates/?a=1220&z=9]http://www.cityofventura.net/newsmanager/templates/?a=1220&z=9[/link]
.

is this the best solution? i dont know, but at least it is proactive. the cat population is being put in check by spay/neuter and the cats get to live.

 
If that were completely happening I would agree. 
 
I have been watching a situation about a group of cats that are running around the apartment complex behind me.  It was 5 cats.  In the last 2 months I have seen 2 more litters of kittens running around.  They are easy to see because they hang around the door of the person feeding them.  Now there is a group of 15 cats hanging around.  I'm on a e-mail list that is supposed to be about dogs and cats needing resuce.  I monitor it for any mention of the breed I have needing homes.  95% of the e-mails are about feral cats and how new colonies springing up or someone that was caring for a colony of about 30 and now they need help because it is up to 70-80 cats.  In this county allowing cats to run loose or feeding loose cats is against the law but I guess that doesn't matter.
 

just like with a new law, things arent going to change overnight. like i said i dont know if it is the best answer or the right answer, but at least people are trying. it gives me more hope than just killing them all. [&:]

While I personally agree that this is a good idea, I can see where many taxpayers would balk at the idea that they should pay for people to spay/neuter their pets. If you can't afford to spay/neuter your own pet, then you probably shouldn't have one, right?

 
I see that being available to anyone.  Also at the same time the pet has a chip inserted.  That way you can track and severly fine the owner if the animal is found stray later.
 

While I agree that these laws should be strongly enforced, I'm not sure it would have much of an impact on the issue of dogs/cats in shelters.

Sure most of the animals in the shelters are strays.  That would also help in situations where dogs bites are a problem.
 

Yep, I agree with this too, but still don't think it'd have a huge impact.  Sure, some people don't know how to train a dog not to pee/poop in the house and get frustrated and surrender them, but I think there's already enough resources if people were interested enough to pursue them.  Many people don't take the responsibility seriously and I'm not sure training is going to help. 

How many animals are turned in because of lack of training or is a problem.  Depending on where you are finding affordable training isn't easy to find and how much of those training classes take place in neighborhoods where the training is needed most.
 
 

ORIGINAL: Xeph
I personally cannot at present afford to have my dog neutered.  And even if I could, chances are I wouldn't anyway (personal choice and reasons).  My dog has food, water, shelter, love, and training.

Have you thought about discussing the matter with your local shelter, some shelters do offer free spay neutering to those who cannot afford it. Also you might discuss your situation with your veterinarian. Anyway, here is a list of places where one can obtain free or low cost spay neutering in California:-
[linkhttp://www.cahealthypets.com/spaylist.htm]http://www.cahealthypets.com/spaylist.htm[/link]

Ah you mentioned training and even "we are trialing in obedience", well you certainly would be able to obtain an Intact Permit, and going by the costs I mentioned earlier you might be able to afford that. Please read the Bill carefully, and note there has been some amendments in some sections:-
[linkhttp://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/07-08/bill/asm/ab_1601-1650/ab_1634_bill_20070531_amended_asm_v94.html]http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/07-08/bill/asm/ab_1601-1650/ab_1634_bill_20070531_amended_asm_v94.html[/link]
 
Just to add, does your local training club give out cards or certificates to the lower classes even beginners classes, maybe local jurisdictions will accept these as proof of training where intact permits will be issued.
 

Intact animals and responsibility are not mutally exclusive.

 
Xeph - I agree and I know you're an extremely responsible dog owner, much more so than the average person.  As to should you own a pet if you can't afford to have it spayed/neutered, I still say that may be what it comes down to.  If you don't have $50-100 to pay for the surgery, what would you do if your dog gets pancreatitis or has a severe allergic reaction to something.  Do you honestly think that there will be masses of people who pass up getting a pet because of that cost of spaying or neutering?  If so, they probably weren't extremely interested anyway and that usually translates into poor training, care, supervision, etc.  Maybe that's painting with a broad brush and not fair to a minority of folks, but I think it's a fair point.  I think adopting a dog or cat is far too easy.  Kids see a puppy and say "oh mom, pleasssseeee" and 15 min's later they're on the way home completely unprepared for the cost in terms of time and money. 

quote:

While I agree that these laws should be strongly enforced, I'm not sure it would have much of an impact on the issue of dogs/cats in shelters.

Sure most of the animals in the shelters are strays. That would also help in situations where dogs bites are a problem.

 
I don't think that most animals that end up euthanized at the shelter were just dogs who were accidentally "off-leash".  I would search high and low for my dog if she got loose and I think most others would too.  I'm betting the ones who sit there until it's too late were surrenders or were let loose on purpose.
 

How many animals are turned in because of lack of training or is a problem.  Depending on where you are finding affordable training isn't easy to find and how much of those training classes take place in neighborhoods where the training is needed most.

 
I'd love to think that if people could just find the training, they'd take advantage of it, work with their dogs for however long it takes, and live happily ever after.  I don't think people aren't getting training cause it's not available.  Petsmart classes aren't hard to find and aren't that expensive.  I think people do not understand what it means to bring a dog into their life and like so many things, they consider them disposable [:@]

I don't think people aren't getting training cause it's not available. Petsmart classes aren't hard to find and aren't that expensive. I think people do not understand what it means to bring a dog into their life and like so many things, they consider them disposable

 
Allot of times it isn't that available.  In our area Petsmart are the most expensive classes out there.  The local training clubs are much cheaper.  A good example of a program that just isn't quite working is our local parks department offers training classes.  The cost is really resonable $30 for 8 weeks held in a local park.  The only problem is that most of the classes are being held in the wrong parts of town parks near nice areas.  These classes also need to be held in less affluent areas where they probably are more needed.
 
It is a shame that people consider pets disposable.  I never have understood that because I wasn't rasied that way.  I quess it just is part of a larger part of society where everything is disposable.

ORIGINAL: timsdat
Allot of times it isn't that available.  In our area Petsmart are the most expensive classes out there.  The local training clubs are much cheaper.  A good example of a program that just isn't quite working is our local parks department offers training classes.  The cost is really resonable $30 for 8 weeks held in a local park.  The only problem is that most of the classes are being held in the wrong parts of town parks near nice areas.  These classes also need to be held in less affluent areas where they probably are more needed.

 
It's a matter of getting a few who are interested in making it happen and available, this even where it is really needed. Talking with others can sometimes make wonders providing people are willing to work at making things work.
 
Take for example this would have required what I just mentioned and would have started as someones vision and willingness to get it started. This offers a FREE training course plus rebates on dog licenses this to everyone in the County, and I've heard some other Cities and Counties over there offer similar programs, see via this link address:-
[linkhttp://www.egipps.vic.gov.au/Page/page.asp?Page_Id=160&h=0]http://www.egipps.vic.gov.au/Page/page.asp?Page_Id=160&h=0[/link]
 
The program involves a County working in conjunction with their local Training Club. In the program, those who do not complete the course and pass are NOT issued with a certificate, the certificate obtains a rebate on dog licenses with the County, when I looked it costs "Unsterilised male/female $124.00" but for those who have "Dog Obedience Certificate $31.00", this maybe an incentive to complete and pass the course, if not then maybe later on after they receive their next dog license renewal. Keep in mind that this program involves the County working in conjunction with the Training Club.
 
On looking at the 8 week program I see it's not just socialising and obedience training at the club, but also includes things like "We will also have a town walk" which sounds like a fun club outing and maybe some test, but prior they mention people are - "expected to put in 10 minutes at least a day in training your dog in your own time. Try not to limit your training to the back yard. Take your dog around the streets, practice the exercises, make your dog sit at road crossings, do not let your dog become distracted by unusual sights and sounds. Take your dog to as many different locations as possible, main shopping areas, sports grounds where games are under way etc."
 
Also in the program I see - "Each week bring along a folding chair or rug for your comfort during lectures", then I see "Lectures from local vets and club members on how to care for your dog#%92s needs." and "Learn from the Local Council Representative on how to be responsible for your dog within the community." Well I think I get the picture of what this Responsible Dog Ownership Program is about.
 
Things happen when people get together and work towards things.
 
Also whilst over there I spotted this, where $1 from every dog license goes toward this, where a team of 65 trained Pet Educator with their dogs go to schools around the State, see this page via this link and then have a look through the site:-
[linkhttp://www.pets.info.vic.gov.au/01/tres.htm]http://www.pets.info.vic.gov.au/01/tres.htm[/link]
.
 

That training program sound really good.  I believe that providing incentives to convince people to train and be responsible is much better.
 
 

Have you thought about discussing the matter with your local shelter, some shelters do offer free spay neutering to those who cannot afford it.

I have $23 in my checking account, and a few hundred set aside for emergencies.  Definitely can't afford even low cost at present, and neutering is not a medical emergency. 
 

Anyway, here is a list of places where one can obtain free or low cost spay neutering in California:-
[linkhttp://www.cahealthypets.com/spaylist.htm]http://www.cahealthypets.com/spaylist.htm[/link]

I'm in Wisconsin

Just to add, does your local training club give out cards or certificates to the lower classes even beginners classes, maybe local jurisdictions will accept these as proof of training where intact permits will be issued

 
We don't charge by class, we charge on a sliding scale for the entire year, and offer $5 discounts from the current price on our website and through the yearly Pet Expo.
 
Interest in training has expanded so much, we've had to ADD classes.  Training now occurs at Packerland Kennel Club 6 nights a week. 
 

I think adopting a dog or cat is far too easy.  Kids see a puppy and say "oh mom, pleasssseeee" and 15 min's later they're on the way home completely unprepared for the cost in terms of time and money. 

I disagree.  ADOPTING a dog in a lot of places is like the spanish inquisition!  No matter what you put down, they find something wrong with your application.
 
BUYING a dog is easy.  Any idiot can go look in the paper and come home with pup within the hour.  I help with rescue, but honestly, my own rescue is unlikely to adopt to me (and I'm talking WITHOUT money troubles).  I'm too young, my situation may change too much, etc. etc.  I got Strauss FRESH out of high school, bought him with not nearly enough knowledge of the breed, bought him from a BYB and by sheer dumb luck got a dog with a rather stunning pedigree, fantastic temperament, and the second best friend I've ever had (nothing could surpass Twinkle Star, admittedly).
 
I got a breed I will fight for the right and privlege to own forever.
 
I shouldn't have been able to buy a dog that easily, and if I were JQP, Mouse would have been sent to the shelter a zillion times over already.  He's active, he's vocal, he's bratty, he's mouthy.  He's smart, he's sweet, he's happy, he is a JOY.  The issues I'm having with him are normal issues that JQP would have thrown their hands up at and said "Too much work!  I quit!"  And I don't allow myself to quit on this dog.
 
I shouldn't have been able to buy this dog.  But I was.  And I did.  And he's mine.
 
People need to take time to educate themselves, and THAT'S how these high numbers will decline...not through crappy legislation.