Latest anti-Cali s/n bill letter

the law provides for a delay, if approved in writing by a veterinarian.

 
Why should I need a vets blessing on what to do with MY property. 

ORIGINAL: timsdat

the law provides for a delay, if approved in writing by a veterinarian.

Why should I need a vets blessing on what to do with MY property. 

 
If this Bill, including that veterinary part, does become Law, then it will apply to Californians, you are in Florida where it certainly would NOT apply to you.
 

Why am I concerned.  Well of couple of reasons.  One of my pups dad came from Ca.  If this law were in place a few year ago my dog might not exist.  Doesn't affect me now but it will affect people in the future.
 
This law is a step in the AR groups goals of eliminating the ownership of companion animals.  If you don't think so you are very misguided.  The heads of the HSUS and PETA are on record on the desire to eliminate animals from our lives.  Why do you think that the HSUS spends huge sums of money to help promote laws making it harder and harder to own pets. 
 
These type of laws will spread across the country if it is enacted in Ca.
 

ORIGINAL: timsdat
Why am I concerned.  Well of couple of reasons.  One of my pups dad came from Ca.  If this law were in place a few year ago my dog might not exist.  Doesn't affect me now but it will affect people in the future.

Maybe you should read the Bill, then you might see a number of ways Californians could obtain Intact Permits and where they could even breed if they wish. The lastest copy of the Bill, including latest amendments, is via this link address:-
[linkhttp://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/07-08/bill/asm/ab_1601-1650/ab_1634_bill_20070531_amended_asm_v94.html]http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/07-08/bill/asm/ab_1601-1650/ab_1634_bill_20070531_amended_asm_v94.html[/link]

Just to add, note what I mentioned earlier in this thread about "Intact Dog Licenses" and "Unaltered Animal Certificates", and in some Cities and Counties some Californian breeders and pet owners already have these.

Quincy/DogAdvocat...what is not present is the COST of said permit, and saying the permits will be easy to obtain...when they are the sole point of funding for the entire program...is a bit premature.
 
I also found it ironic that Levine apparently offered to allow mix breed owners to ge a permit to breed once a year in order to secure his votes.

Maybe you should read the Bill, then you might see a number of ways Californians could obtain Intact Permits and where they could even breed if they wish.

 
I said it is a step.  Haven't you ever heard of incremental legislation.
 
Here are a couple of quotes by the AR movement.
 
"Breeders must be eliminated! As long as there is a surplus of companion animals in the concentration camps referred to as "shelters", and they are killing them because they are homeless, one should not be allowed to produce more for their own amusement and profit. If you know of a breeder in the Los Angeles area, whether commercial or private, legal or illegal, let us know and we will post their name, location, phone number so people can write them letters telling them 'Don't Breed or Buy, While Others DIE.'" "Breeders! Let's get rid of them too!" Campaign on Animal Defense League's website, September 2, 2003.
 
My goal is the abolition of all animal agriculture." JP Goodwin, employed at the Humane Society of the US, formerly at Coalition to Abolish the Fur Trade, as quoted on AR-Views, an animal rights Internet discussion group in 1996.
 

ORIGINAL: rwbeagles

Quincy/DogAdvocat...what is not present is the COST of said permit, and saying the permits will be easy to obtain...when they are the sole point of funding for the entire program...is a bit premature.
 
I also found it ironic that Levine apparently offered to allow mix breed owners to ge a permit to breed once a year in order to secure his votes.

 
The cost of Intact Permits would be up to each Local Jurisdictions within California. But note earlier what I mentioned about LA on record that it's going to use the current "Intact Dog Licenses" as the Permits at no additional cost, and I also mentioned the model of this Bill in Santa Cruz where it's current Intact Permit (Unaltered Animal Certificates) are $15, so these may give a bit of a view what some other might happen to charge. And if Santa Cruz County obtained a 64% intake decrease in it's shelters, and this using a $15 Intact Permit costs plus also fines were used for revenue, then other places may be able do do similarly but cost may vary somewhat but not too much this way or that. 
 
Did you read anything in the Bill regarding mix breed owners to breed once a year, if it's not currently in the Bill or in the next amendment then consider what you may have heard maybe just political talking or maybe just some rumour. Keep in mind a mix bred working dog certainly can be issued with an Intact Permit and be bred as many times as the owner wants. 

Here is a interesting little thing I was alerted to in the news.   [linkhttp://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19016068]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19016068[/link]
 
Veterinarian Helen Hamilton of Fremont, Calif.
 led an effort in April to rescue suspected puppy mill dogs at an
auction in Arkansas. She and her group raised $12,000 to buy 71 dogs, mostly
older females that were used for breeding. The dogs were placed in shelters in
California, Georgia and Florida.

Your overpopulation problem must not be that bad since they are importing animals from other states!!!!
 

ORIGINAL: timsdat
I said it is a step.  Haven't you ever heard of incremental legislation.

Here are a couple of quotes by the AR movement.

 
I'm not interested in speculations and AR movements.
 

ORIGINAL: timsdat

Here is a interesting little thing I was alerted to in the news.   [linkhttp://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19016068]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19016068[/link]

Veterinarian Helen Hamilton of Fremont, Calif.
led an effort in April to rescue suspected puppy mill dogs at an
auction in Arkansas. She and her group raised $12,000 to buy 71 dogs, mostly
older females that were used for breeding. The dogs were placed in shelters in
California, Georgia and Florida.

Your overpopulation problem must not be that bad since they are importing animals from other states!!!!

Anyone that thinks that there is no overpopulation problem in shelters, no matter where you live, is living in a dream world. Try taking  a flight out to California, and visiting some shelters and see some reality, rather than making statements that have zero basis in fact. 

Try taking a flight out to California, and visiting some shelters and see some reality, rather than making statements that have zero basis in fact.

 
I live here and I know how horribly crowded the shelters are.  I rescued my lab from the shelter and she was in a small run with at least 10 other dogs.  I don't even know how they manage that many dogs but it's heartbreaking and I'd love to think this bill would help.  I can't stand the thought that it must continue as status quo so that breeders can continue to breed.  I'm sorry Tim if that means the dog you have wouldn't exist.  At the risk of sound dramatic, the lives of millions of dogs and cats shouldn't be minimized by the pleasure of the love for your dog.  Again, I'm not sure this bill is the answer, but could it just be possible that it'll help?  What if we give it a try and then, worst case scenario, we're the model for it not working?  Would that be so awful?  I've been back and forth on my opinion about whether this is a good bill or not, but I've never stopped feeling frustrated by what is currently a huge problem.  For anyone who thinks the bill is a bad idea, do you have something better to offer? 

ORIGINAL: timsdat
Here is a interesting little thing I was alerted to in the news.   [linkhttp://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19016068]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19016068[/link]

Veterinarian Helen Hamilton of Fremont, Calif.
led an effort in April to rescue suspected puppy mill dogs at an
auction in Arkansas. She and her group raised $12,000 to buy 71 dogs, mostly
older females that were used for breeding. The dogs were placed in shelters in
California, Georgia and Florida.

Your overpopulation problem must not be that bad since they are importing animals from other states!!!!

 
I've heard of groups rescueing dogs from puppy mills, even from interstate puppy mills, then trying to find them homes where they can have a normal life. Now where does one put 71 dogs rescued from a puppy mill and so that they can have a chance at finding a normal home, and were you offering that they stay at your home. There are various groups that do this quite often, such as this one where quote "It is our goal to rescue breeding age Cavaliers from the horrors of puppymills" and those dogs are lucky in that they have foster homes to stay in till forever homes can be found:-
[linkhttp://www.luckystarcavalierrescue.org/]http://www.luckystarcavalierrescue.org/[/link]
 
 

For anyone who thinks the bill is a bad idea, do you have something better to offer?

 
Yes and they have been stated many times.
 
Public eduction. Promote responsible ownership.
Incentive to S/N.  Pay people to neuter their dogs.
Strong enforcement of existing law. Leash laws, cruelty laws.
More availability of training resources.  After all these dogs in shelters had homes.
Remove all feral cats.  After all stray cats are the majority of shelter intakes.
 
California shelter intake and been steadily declining since 1990 and you know population has been increasing.  That is without S/N laws.  Current programs are working, enhance them and add more.
 

Cathy I've already stated numerous times that have no issue with breeder licensing, litter permits, and heavier regulation or outright banning the sale of puppies and kittens via pet stores or any similar retail outlets...or requiring dogs and cats purchased thru such outlets..to be altered prior to sale. That alone would make a bigger difference, IMO.
 
Forcing surgery on privately owned pets, especially on a puppy or kitten, is not the answer...period.

"It is our goal to rescue breeding age Cavaliers from the horrors of puppymills"

 
And all they are doing is putting money in the pockets of the millers and auctioneers so they can repeat the cycle all over again.