Everybody grab a baseball bat (video included)

*sigh* So often folks really don't understand when they DEMAND that companies "prove" their products with "test results" (everyone wants products that have been 'thoroughly tested';), very often they don't realize what that means.

It's no secret that I've said I won't use Nutramax products (things like Adequan, Denosyl, Marin, Denamarin) -- the company has a sterling reputation, and the products are a really good quality (and for folks who are afraid of herbals, sometimes it's the only non-nsaid arthritis product or milk thistle/SAM-e product they use b/c it's sold by vets).  Why?  Simply because in order to "test" those products the company INDUCES the diseases in the test panel of dogs so they can 'test' the product.  This way they can have a whole bunch of subject dogs the same age, fed, the same food, usually of the same breed --- all with the same symptoms, caused by the same thing so they can validate their testing easier.

So yeah -- they induce liver failure to test products to help the liver.  They induce arthritis to test products to help arthritis.  I don't like it.

espencer is simply going  one further -- some of these tests are testing veterinary products.  Some of them are testing human products. 

These sorts of tests are CHEAPER than the wide-sampling they'd have to use in order to obtain results from more natural methods.  Typically it's a horror factory result.  I don't even want to watch the video.  I'm already there.

I don't want anything used on MY animal that was not first proven safe on other test animals. Bad of me?...sure others can judge, but that is how I feel.

Same for my medical care or any surgical procedure performed on me, my kids, or my animals. Do NOT touch me or mine, even to remove an ingrown TOENAIL, unless you have proven yourself on the living, breathing, bleeding, equivalent someplace.

I didn't watch the video...I am sure it's horrible, they always are. But I am also sure the people we have at this forum that work in research labs that use animals...are not evil people who enjoy it. They are simply those that will be saving our lives and those of our animals someday. JMO.

I have Beagles...the #1 choice of Labs everywhere...and I dealt with my feelings on the issues long ago.

I didn't watch the video but I'm sure it's horrid.  I don't like the fact that animals are used for testing products but I don't want to be the person whose dog or cat has a terrible reaction because it was never tested in a lab setting.   Cruelty is never acceptable and labs should make every effort to house the animals as humanely as possible.  Labs are businesses and like any business, some are good and some are not.

  I'm always a bit of a skeptic when it comes to videos from PETA undercover folks.  They are pretty crafty and clever and everything is not always as it may appear.  

 We live in a society that demands products that are 100% safe (impossible, IMO), cheap and readily accessible.  We  are a society quick to file a lawsuit or demand compensation from a manufacturer if a product fails to perform as advertised or injures our animals.   There is no perfect solution to the need to test products on animals.  Be thankful that human testing is done on volunteers unlike the "good old days" when you might have been a test subject without your knowledge or consent.

Testing is a necessary evil and like Gina, I don't like it but I'm not willing to use a product that is untested. 

 

I watched the video and the conditions the animals are kept under seem to have little to do with the tests that are being administered. I have my opinion on what I think of animal testing, however, what is shown in the video is not about the testing, it’s about the treatment of the animals in that facility and the ill behavior of the employees. There is no reason for the animals to be treated or kept this way by people who are not properly trained in animal handeling.  If this was a lab that followed clean and proper procedures for testing aniamls I might have the same comment as Gina, but this facility is not.

What is in this video is beyond cruel but just as horrible is the yelling, cursing and aggressive behavior of the employees. It makes the working conditions for the employees dangerous. If this was not an animal testing lab then the attitudes of the employees would be seen as abuse in the workplace. I think they need a psychological evaluation to determin weather or not they are even safe to be out in the public.

JackieG

I'm always a bit of a skeptic when it comes to videos from PETA undercover folks.  They are pretty crafty and clever and everything is not always as it may appear.  

 

Ditto.

Xebby

the animals are kept under seem to have little to do with the tests that are being administered.

Xebby

it’s about the treatment of the animals in that facility and the ill behavior of the employees.

Correct

JackieG

I'm always a bit of a skeptic when it comes to videos from PETA undercover folks.  They are pretty crafty and clever and everything is not always as it may appear.

Would you mind on elaborating a little bit more on this? I find hard to believe that some of the stuff showed in the video might be "crafted"

espencer

JackieG

I'm always a bit of a skeptic when it comes to videos from PETA undercover folks.  They are pretty crafty and clever and everything is not always as it may appear.

Would you mind on elaborating a little bit more on this? I find hard to believe that some of the stuff showed in the video might be "crafted"

I didn't say that the video you posted was "crafted".  I said I'm skeptical when it comes to PETA and I referred to them as crafty and deceptive.  You can find plenty of information on PETA if you search the net.  

You have perhaps assumed by my statement regarding PETA that I doubt that the animals at this lab were treated inhumanely but that's not the case.  I think, based on what was described, that the company and employees should face legal action and from the article, that appears to be in the works.  

 just wanted to update this thread by noting that my SPCA went there today and pulled animals

this was posted on FB

"We couldn't say no, we hope you won't either... We have been working hard today to help rescue the laboratory research animals from the PLRS facility closing its doors today. We've been in Corapeake, NC all day. We took more animals than we planned, but there were so many cats and dogs who needed our help, we couldn't say no. We will post photos tomorrow and ask for your help to find homes, especially for adult cats!"

 

I just saw a news brief on one of the shelters taking in some of the lab animals.

This may not be a popular opinion, but I really have an issue with a shelter taking in these animals when it means that they must double up dogs and cats in kennels to make room.  They're just asking for disease explosion and injuries from fighting and added stress on the animals already in care - how is that better than the abuse that the lab animals experienced?  There has to be a better way!

 Erin you know I don't know any behind the scenes at any rescue so I cannot comment

this was their next post

"We will have info at www.spcawake.org by Saturday morning. Not sure yet how fast these animals will be able to move through our system, which will determine the amount of foster space needed. We got 30+ dogs and cats."

I hope they are doing right

 I think the shelter profiled in the news last night was in Guilford County - maybe a different shelter?

I think the big picture is being missed in this story. Yeah, the treatment of the animals is sad but what this should be about is targeting the employees for their behavior. I think this lab could have continued running if this was handled a different way. The animals didn't have to be taken out of the location if they would have just replaced the employees with properly trained people who are knowledgeable in animals care.

It is my understanding that these employees where not qualified to administer controlled substance and used expired drugs to sedate the animals. In that case they are operating illegally. There should have also been a certified vet to oversee that procedures were done correctly. Looking at this from a scientific perspective, the results are not accurate if the test are being conducted under conditions that are not strictly regulated.

If this was not an animal testing facility and we looked at this as any other establishment then these employees should have been removed long before they became so violent. There is no reason for someone to cuss at work or treat "property" or "equipment" in a damaging way outside of standard procedure.