Royal Canin is sponsoring a commercial breeder conference

 Wouldn't you want HEALTHIER dogs coming from pet stores?

No. I want  NO dogs coming from pet stores. A cage in a store is NOT where a puppy should be kept. Regardless of who bred it or where it came from.

 
Because agree with the practice or not, commercial breeders sell to both the public and to brokers, and the only ones who win from better nutrition and these sorts of seminars are the dogs.

Maybe with the reputable commercial breeders you speak of. But with corporations like Hunte, guess who wins? That's right, Hunte wins because they get a PR boost but continue their poor business practices. That is what they have been doing since the beginning.

 What *I* don't get is how commercial breeders tend to have kiniption fits when the average american joe starts to talk about exercising their constitutional rights to vote, petition and make changes in laws and regulations they don't agree with and to exercise their power to send messages with their consumer dollars.   You'd think it was cutting into their business or something.  hmmm?

whtsthfrequency

I'm not attacking breeders. Every time someone disapprovedsof a large volume breeder, certain people start mentally hemorrhaging. Relax. We are saying Hunte Corp (IN PARTICULAR) is a piece of, well, you know - because of HOW they choose, breed, transport, market, and flat out take care of their dogs. NOT simply the fact that they are a commercial breeder.

 Not saying I am a supporter of petstores selling puppies but it isn't likely to end. IMO Hunte may be the best place for those puppies to come from. The facility at Hunte corp from all eye witness accounts I have heard is state of the art facility, spotless, climate controlled with frequent air changes and resident vets on hand. They will refuse puppies which don't meet their criteria and pay breeders more if the parents of the puppies are health checked (OFA, CERF, Optigen). Which brings me to ask if you know much of anything about Hunte as you seem to think that Hunte breeds dogs?

Instead of being idealistic and saying "I want NO puppies sold in petstores ever!" and being realistic instead, wouldn't it be far better to have healthy, sound puppies sold in petstores? And FWIW this has nothing much to do with my own preferences when buying a puppy or suggesting a breeder. I wouldn't buy a petstore puppy and don't encourage others to. I agree that the petstore environment is less than ideal for puppies in that it exposes them to disease and is counterproductive in housetraining (that could be solved with a differnet set up though). It is ideal for socialization FWIW. Quality wise I have seen really, really poor quality dogs from petstores, as well as dogs that I was surprised to hear were from petstores.

 Interestingly, most breeds got their start in the US in what would now be considered commercial breeding kennels - large kennel facilities that often bred more than one breed and had puppies available often and many times had paid staff to help care for the dogs. There are still commercial kennels which produce and/or sell quality dogs and you can find them quite easily in German line GSDs. Their dogs aren't sold in petstores, tend to be pretty high priced and are generally quality dogs but they are commercial kennels without a doubt. My Jora's parents were both from such a kennel, although her sire was imported so wasn't of their breeding and she was from a private breeder.

 Anyway back to the topic at hand, I don't see how this breeder conference is in any way a bad thing. If it was close by I'd be going myself, as I really would like to see the Breeding Better Dogs seminar :) I also suggest reading the crosspost I posted, as it really has a lot to do with this subject.

Which brings me to ask if you know much of anything about Hunte as you seem to think that Hunte breeds dogs?

 
I know quite a lot about Hunte. I got into learning about (from various sources) volume breeders when I became interested in researching the lab supplier Covance and its policies, being a student who leans towards research. I misspoke when I implied they breed their own dogs, I was referring to their choice of and restrictions or lack thereof about breeders and taking pups from them. I've seen quite a few USDA reports on Hunte, not all of which are as glowing of a picture as you paint it. Look up all of the transport violations. Look up all of the sick and congenitally messed up pups that have come from them. Etc....could go on and on....

I also suggest reading the crosspost I posted, as it really has a lot to do with this subject.

 
No, it has to do with the public's perception of commercial breeders in general. Not defending consistent indiscriminate brokers/suppliers like Hunte 

 I too have read the USDA inspection reports of Hunte facilities.  Accepting dogs from unlicensed breeders, expired meds, transporting pups documented to be under the age of 8 weeks, and other things are among the violations they've been cited for.  There have been many reports of puppies spending long, hot hours on their trucks w/o food or water as required by AWA regulations.  I don't think you, AgileGSD, know as much as you think about them or their operations.  There may have been people who've visited their facility and said it was nice and clean, etc., but inspection reports say otherwise.  It's also our right to oppose their operation, however well run, for our own ethical reasons, namely the wholesale breeding and retail sale of companion animals.

As for whether we want pet store sales of puppies to end being realistic or not, it is realistic to hope for and to work towards an end to that practice.  The opposition to sales in pet stores has not only to do with the health of the puppies being sold and the potential impact on an unsuspecting buyer, it also has to do with there being no evaluation of the suitability of owners and puppies ending up in bad situations because the only concern on the part of the pet store owner is whether the charge to the credit card will go through.

I think it's wrong to tell people that what they hope for or work towards is unrealistic and should be given up.  Many great things have been achieved by people who care and who are willing to put money, time and energy behind an effort to see things they object to changed.  Remember, not so long ago, animals weren't protected at all and harming, abusing and killing them was not against the law.  Imagine if those working towards change had listened to advice that it wasn't realistic and they should settle for something less than their goals.

BCMixs

 I too have read the USDA inspection reports of Hunte facilities.  Accepting dogs from unlicensed breeders, expired meds, transporting pups documented to be under the age of 8 weeks, and other things are among the violations they've been cited for.  There have been many reports of puppies spending long, hot hours on their trucks w/o food or water as required by AWA regulations.  I don't think you, AgileGSD, know as much as you think about them or their operations.  There may have been people who've visited their facility and said it was nice and clean, etc., but inspection reports say otherwise. 

 Can you point this forum to these reports? How current are they? No doubt, not everything they do is going to be ideal as they are a large corperation with multiple employees. It is not what I would consider ideal of course but the eye witness accounts that I have heard, it would seem pretty hard to call them a "puppy mill" or imply that the puppies are poorly housed or poorly cared for.

 You can think that it is realistic to believe that commercial dog breeding will be stopped and I'll keep watching the local petstore sell hundreds of puppies some months. It actually is much more realistic that hobby breeding will be stopped and commercial breeders and petstores will be the only source for purchasing purebred puppies. That isn't something I want to see happen ever and is something that I find very disheartening. None the less I feel that is the direction current legislation (along with the increasing acceptance of average people to the idea that breeders and multiple pet owners are all bad) seems to be taking us.

I haven't read thisentire thread yet, but I just wanted to ask what is wrong with breeders feeding this food?  Don't you want all dogs to have access to quality food?  Or should we(breeders) all have to feed our dogs sub-standard foods with poor nutritional value just because we are breeders?  What is wrong with them educating the breeding public about nutrition?

 The inspection reports of all commercial breeders are available at the APHIS section of the USDA website. 

The objections aren't to breeders feeding quality food it's to the sponsorship component from a corporation that has actively solicited that the USDA change it's designation so that it not be subject to the more stringent regulations that it apparently doesn't like being subject to.  Along with other things, like having pups burn up in trucks.

Silly stuff like that. 

 Ok, in the hopes of educating and enlightening some who may not know who or what Hunte Corporation is and why some people respond the way they do when the name comes up, here are some links to info about this company and their practices.

Aug. 15, 2006 Puppies die in Hunte truck fire

References to a Hunte facility inspection further down in this article

The Missouri Department of Natural Resources investigated a Hunte kennel facility in 2003 after receiving complaints about how the site disposed of dead animals. Inspectors cited the company for violating state clean water and waste laws. They called the trenches of dead canines they discovered ``marginally compliant."

The kennel was close to violating the state's dead animal disposal laws, which allow no more than 1,000 pounds of dead animals to be buried per acre, said Mark Rader, water and land section chief for the department. He said that most facilities bury dogs in landfills and that it is rare for a kennel to bury so many dogs on site. Radar said he did not know how the dogs died.

Petitioning for a change in classification with USDA

 Inspection report 2-9-05

Inspection report 7-7-05 

 Interesting list of businesses Hunte is involved in

   -must be convenient to own a veterinary practice when you need health certificates!  Talk about conflict of interest.

Andrew Hunte squeezes his way into GSD club by the narrowest of margins, then proceeds to disgust members with talk of his great new incinerator!  Yipee!
 

This article is old, but it just bothers the crap out of me.  If a puppy is "happy and healthy" why does it need to be medicated twice a day???  And I can't imagine the stress that a 14+ hour ride in an 18 wheeler would put on me, much less an 8 week old puppy! 

Funny, the keynote speaker dropped out due to Hunte's involvement.   

Nutrisource drops out too!  They're running like rats from a sinking ship!

 ....but I just wanted to ask what is wrong with breeders feeding this food?  Don't you want all dogs to have access to quality food?  Or should we(breeders) all have to feed our dogs sub-standard foods with poor nutritional value just because we are breeders?  What is wrong with them educating the breeding public about nutrition?

 
Um....that really isn't what the discussion is about at all....breeders of course should feed good food....of anyone, they should be the ones choosing the best of the best...

 I haven't read thisentire thread yet,

Might want to ;) 

Instead of being idealistic and saying "I want NO puppies sold in petstores ever!" and being realistic instead, wouldn't it be far better to have healthy, sound puppies sold in petstores?

According to such logic..... 

Instead of being idealistic and saying "I want NO dogfighting ever" and being realistic instead, wouldn't it be far better to provide dog fighters with free veterinary service to have healthy, sound dogs being fought? Right. Sure.

Maybe African Americans should have been realistic and just accepted being a fraction of a person back in the times of slavery, instead of being idealistic and trying for social and legal equality over so many years.

Etc

Etc.... 

 BBBWAHAHAHAHAHA!  I just read on another forum that Royal Canin has decided to withdraw from the conference after receiving feedback from their consumers!

 Yipee!!!!!

I hope Hunte is getting the message! 

Yeah, that link you gave to the blog about the keynote speaker dropping out had an update just today that RC pulled out. 

To quote Stewie Griffin, "Victory is MINE!" LOL!!