URGENT MESSAGE! PLEASE READ THIS!

If they were selling books teaching how to make bombs...how to poison people...how to kill dogs....would you defend them becasue they are books and everyone has the right to read books?

Actually yes. 

The subjects you mention, there are adobe files that you can download at no cost that will teach you how to make bombs, poison people, and how to kill just about anything-2 or 4 legged. 

I respect your opinion dyan and understand why you hold it, I just disagree.  Thankfully we still live in a country, at least some of us do, where it is ok to disagree and it is okay to put out in print that we disagree.

I respect your opinion dyan and understand why you hold it, I just disagree.  Thankfully we still live in a country, at least some of us do, where it is ok to disagree and it is okay to put out in print that we disagree.

Yes,,,of course you are right.
Sorry,,, I am just a little disappointed in the answers here.
So many people looking to outlaw Vick for fighting dogs.   So many people looking to get him punished for fighting dogs. Watching all of the sick and horrible dog fights that they are showing on TV... glad that it is being publicized as much as it is to give all people a chance to learn what a horrific crime dog fighting is...   and knowing that someone is out there making money on selling books and supplies that support the crime...just frankly make me a little sick. 

ORIGINAL: dyan

Not me...those books are not worth it.   And as Maureen said...we are asking Amazon to not support Dog Fighting by selling these books.  I wrote a letter to them a week ago stating just that.  I don't support Dog Fighting in any way, shape or form...and would think my dog friends would feel the same.

 
I agree with you and you should object by using your voice through writing and your pocket book to send your message.  It is your freedom of choice not to buy the books.

There is a vast difference between making a thing "illegal" .. and saying "no I won't buy that".  Making it illegal is censorship.  That's bad.
 
However, saying to Amazon "I'm not going to buy your products and support your website with my purchases because I don't approve of the 'how to' books on dogfighting you are selling" -- that's consumerism -- it's what we do as Americans.
 
I don't approve of the original posters post and intent.  You can't just walk away and not use Amazon and not tell them.  THAT is pointless.  That's just attributed to "oh the market's down".  That's not a direct tie-in for Amazon cause/effect. 
 
An email to them that is sensible, to the point and points out that cause/effect -- that's going to be heeded.  Emotionalism won't be. 
 
There's a lot of us who won't buy Proctor & Gamble because of their ties to animal testing.  A lot of us, who in the past, have boycotted other goods and products because of strong feelings about personal choice.  But make your 'vote' count.  Don't be silent. 
 
But there is a HUGE difference between asking for something to be 'banned' or making something illegal ... and boycotting it. 
 
I may not agree with what you want to 'boycott' -- but I'll stand next to you and fight for your RIGHT to do so. 
 
But amidst all of this -- I'd urge strong strong caution.  I'd have to investigate those books solidly before I took Amazon to task for selling them.  The original poster was posting on pure emotion and "you GOTTA" ... no.  I *don't* "gotta".  And charging ahead on pure emotion isn't going to get a thing truly accomplished.
 
But for anyone who wants to boycott Amazon ... do it.  Just don't do it 'silently'.  TELL THEM WHY.  Also point out to them how much you personally have spent with them in the past year.  Point out how many people you are going to TELL about your personal decision, and tell them where you're going to go to GET the things you're not going to order from them!
 
And you might want to do some research -- because a lot of companies out there are part and parcel of each other nowdays -- like Amazon and E-bay. 
 
Being an informed consumer is a big responsibility -- but you also can wield a pretty big stick too.
 
 

ORIGINAL: calliecritturs

There is a vast difference between making a thing "illegal" .. and saying "no I won't buy that".  Making it illegal is censorship.  That's bad.

However, saying to Amazon "I'm not going to buy your products and support your website with my purchases because I don't approve of the 'how to' books on dogfighting you are selling" -- that's consumerism -- it's what we do as Americans.

I don't disagree with your distinction, but I absolutely and totally support freedom of information, even when I find the particular information disgusting.  I have interests that other people may find unpleasant, immoral, or whatever. Should we seek to shut down the sale of books promoting evolution?  Or creationism?  My point is that when it comes to information (rather than acts) I am absolutely opposed to attempts to limit access to that information.  Even when done via consumer power.  I think it is the wrong thing to do. 

I may need to write to Amazon and tell them why I will continue to support them.  Yay for Amazon for standing up for intellectual freedom. 

I believe the OP was asking fellow dog lovers to boycott amazon.com--NOT to ban any books.  Sheesh...another Advocacy thread taken completely off course from its original intent. [&o]

Sorry, I don't see the difference.  The intended goal is to prevent distribution of unsavory books. 

ORIGINAL: calliecritturs
There is a vast difference between making a thing "illegal" .. and saying "no I won't buy that". Making it illegal is censorship. That's bad.

However, saying to Amazon "I'm not going to buy your products and support your website with my purchases because I don't approve of the 'how to' books on dogfighting you are selling" -- that's consumerism -- it's what we do as Americans.

Awesome post, Callie. Thanks for making that distinction!

The Dog Pit - Or, How To Select, Breed, Train And Manage Fighting Dogs, With Points As To Their Care In Health And Disease - 1888 (History Of Fighting Dogs Series) (History of Fighting Dogs Series) by Richard, K. Fox (Paperback - Jan 9, 2006)

THIS looks like a support dog fighting book to me. Might be interesting to read what has changed over the years but it still looks like a support book to me.

But wasn't that book written in 1888?  There was a thread just like this one a while back and I went to Amazon to look for myself and could not find any books written in the past 50 years or so that actually advocate dog fighting.  It looks like this particular book is part of a series on the history of dog fighting.  I've read books on Dr. Joseph Mengele, but that doesn't mean I automatically support doing terrible experiments on children or that whoever sells such information automatically condones it.

Also, Amazon is made up mostly of other company's and people's Amazon stores.  I personally would not buy from and Amazon store that advocated dog fighting (if there is one), but just the other day I bought a microwave from Target's Amazon store (b/c it was out of stock in the actual store here).

I've read books on Dr. Joseph Mengele, but that doesn't mean I automatically support doing terrible experiments on children or that whoever sells such information automatically condones it.

Exactly.  And going through this list, most of these items don't support dogfighting in the least.   Off the Chain and Bloodline are documentaries geared toward making people aware of what goes on in the underground.  The Dieter Flagg books are historical references.  Those Ghetto Dawg movies are just crappy low-budget drama movies.  The Ron Mexico shirts (though they could easily be misinterpreted) are meant to mock the sport.  Only three books strike me as genuinely supporting dogfighting, and two are OOP and the other one the ancient one mentioned above.

ETA:  Make that just the 1888 book after reading the blurb [linkhttp://www.amazon.com/Gladiator-Dogs-Carl-Semencic/dp/0793805961/ref=sr_1_35/105-9296603-3375667?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187707657&sr=8-35]http://www.amazon.com/Gladiator-Dogs-Carl-Semencic/dp/0793805961/ref=sr_1_35/105-9296603-3375667?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187707657&sr=8-35[/link]

ORIGINAL: amylu

I believe the OP was asking fellow dog lovers to boycott amazon.com--NOT to ban any books.  Sheesh...another Advocacy thread taken completely off course from its original intent. [&o]

 
Just a small comment -- sometimes how people title their posts -- they truly *do not* get it.  When you type a title in caps - first off you anger half the world because it's 'shouting'.  next -- it sounds like some dog is in an emergency life/death situation *now* and when someone gets into the thread they find out it's a political commentary and feel sucked in.
 
There is a way to phrase advocacy so it does some good.  And then there's the way to phrase it guaranteed to yank everyone's chain the wrong way and get the exact response you don't want.  If you pour raw 'emotion' on people -- you're going to get an emotional knee-jerk response, rather than the thoughtful, inciteful answer that might actually change some minds and do some good.
 
I'm not saying anyone is bad, wrong or immoral -- I'm saying if you want to achieve a particular end then go about it in a way that will inspire others to help, not just 'react'.  A reaction takes an instant and rarely chances any minds. 

 It is possible that a lover of the breed could be willing to purchase all of these books just for the simple purpose of furthering their knowledge of the breed.
 
 Also one could read pro-fighting books and perhaps be better informed and better equiped to fight the sport than one who was reacting from outrage with no real understanding of how or why people do it.
 

ORIGINAL: amylu

I believe the OP was asking fellow dog lovers to boycott amazon.com--NOT to ban any books.  Sheesh...another Advocacy thread taken completely off course from its original intent. [&o]

 
I'd be willing to bet that any book available on amazon.com is also available at Borders, Barnes & Noble and any number of other book stores, not to mention being available on line. Are we going to be expected to boycott bookstores across the country and the internet?  I think the  best way to vote is with out wallets.  Just don't buy the books. People who do want them will find a way to get them anyway, as is their right.
 
Joyce

After a little research on this, I've found that this is not about these books at all. This is about two magazines and a couple of videos and they have pulled the videos. However, the magazines are still on their site. The magazines are said to be no more than a catalogue of ads for fighting animals and weapons. The sale of fighting animals and certain things used in cockfighting are in fact illegal to sell under Federal Laws. It is said that amazon.com is the only online retailer to offer these subscriptions.
The videos they pulled were dog fighting videos that showed the maiming and killing of 18 dogs.

This statement quoted from the HSUS site.
"There is no First Amendment protection for those that profit from the sale of animal cruelty videos, nor does free speech include the right to sell publications that are nothing more than a collection of criminal solicitations."