Am I being a hypocrite: RE Vick conviction

See this link, for a good description of using sighthounds in a traditional setting:
http://www.kelb-tal-fenek.com/rabbithunt.htm

Xerxes,

I think about hunting rabbits with Yoshi. He's definitely game, but he's not trained. While he has good recall - he would be called off the rabbit if a deer ran by.  I live in the woods; not a controlled environment. For example, woods instantly change into someone's backyard.  He's 7 now, and I don't know how practical it would be to try to find a trainer, take the time to train him to chase, grab and retrieve, and then decide to get a license for myself next wabbit season.

He'd dig it for sure.
Paula

Xerxes,

I think about hunting rabbits with Yoshi. He's definitely game, but he's not trained. While he has good recall - he would be called off the rabbit if a deer ran by. I live in the woods; not a controlled environment. For example, woods instantly change into someone's backyard. He's 7 now, and I don't know how practical it would be to try to find a trainer, take the time to train him to chase, grab and retrieve, and then decide to get a license for myself next wabbit season.

He'd dig it for sure.

 
I think Yoshi would have a blast!
 
 Though open field coursing IS illegal in many states, lure coursing does a pretty good job of replicating it.  If you ever have a chance to go to a lure coursing event by all means go!  Take Yoshi with you and see if they'll allow him a "fun run."  It's just a quick down and back.  You'd be surprised at how many dogs, not just sighthounds, really thrill to the idea of chasing white plastic bags on a line.

Oh we've lure coursed. He had fun but got bored with it and tried to make friends with the dog he was running with. I've been quite active with CBARRC (chesapeake bay area rhodesian ridgeback club) and, back in the day, the Catoctin Kennel Club. You haven't lived until you've seen a pair of Bassetts lure course.

Paula

ORIGINAL: paulaedwina

Oh we've lure coursed. He had fun but got bored with it and tried to make friends with the dog he was running with. I've been quite active with CBARRC (chesapeake bay area rhodesian ridgeback club) and, back in the day, the Catoctin Kennel Club. You haven't lived until you've seen a pair of Bassetts lure course.

Paula

I'd love to see Bassets coursing...that would be fun!

I must live fairly close to where you used to do all these activities.  I was considering joining the Catoctin K.C. not too long ago.  []

Really? They're meeting in Point of Rocks now, and have been for some years. When I started with CKC they met at the AirPack warehouse on Aviaton way in Frederick, MD.

Paula

What happens when your dog gets loose, does he attack other dogs or people? My guess would be no and even though pits for the most part love people it doesn't matter if person is walking a dog they will attack both. What you do is legal and what Vick does is illegal, the money he makes with football and he feels the need to fight dogs, he should be out of there!

Paula, I've only read the first few posts in this thread, but another distinction I see is that you watching Ridgies hunt is because you adore this breed, not because you bet several thousand dollars on them catching the deer.  Dog fighters do not fight dogs because they adore the breed's power, strenght and tenacity, they fight b/c they make money.  If Bichons were strong like pits, they'd be using Bichons.  There's no devotion, no loyalty.

You're not a hypocrite. []

Heck, I don't really even ethically support sport hunting (food hunting is different, but come on, who any more actually eats racooon?) and I enjoy watching YouTube videos of coonhounds at work. I just love watching them work and I love hearing their voices. Most of the time anyway the hunters in the vids don't even seem all that interested in shooting down the coon (cuz seriously, who wants to eat one ick!), I think they probably just do it for the same reason I watch it--they love watching their dogs work. Dog fighting is something totally different and as Liesje says, isn't done because they love the breed and love to watch it work--it's about the dough-re-mi if you get my drift.

One thing that has not yet been mentioned is that hunting is necessary to control the population of certain animals that have few natural predators. Deer would starve to death horribly, so fish and game / wildlife departments essentially use hunters to kill off some of them, leaving the rest )hopefully) with enough food.

Hunter and prey has been a part of nature as long as there have been animals. It is the way of life, as natural as breathing. In many animals it is programmed right into their DNA. A cat does not need to be taught to hunt, and a deer does not need to be taught to flee. So I can understand the primordial thrill in watching this struggle take place. I'm not a hunter and have no wish to be, but when I see a wild animal hunting on nature TV programming, I am fascinated. It is life and death, as raw as it gets. And there is a certain rightness to it.
 
The sport of dog fighting is an abomination of nature. Dog are not naturally vicious. In nature, they would sometimes fight over status, territory, food, etc. Very rarely to the death. And they would never fight for no reason. So the very nature of these dogs has been perverted through selective breeding. Breeding dogs who are that dog aggressive is like purposely creating a form of mental illness. Those dogs need to be muzzled and physically restrained to even breed. The puppies need to be separated at a fairly young age so they don't kill each other. Then humans further pervert the nature of dogs by teaching them to be even more vicious.
 
So to me that is what separates dog fighting from things like hunting. One is nature, and the other is a perversion. 
 
And then there is the added dimension of putting on a show just for human entertainment. Hunting in the wild is just about the prey and the hunter and the struggle for life. If there was an animal version of canned hunts, where a hunt was staged between natural predator and prey species but specifically for the entertainment of humans, well that would just leave a bad taste in my mouth. It's toying with life for amusement, not respect of life. So even if you weren't breeding dogs and training them for aggression, just had two family pets who would fight, setting them up and watching them fight is wrong.

I'm gonna be the bad guy.
 
Shadow has killed mice and squirrels and a few birds, usually by playing too hard. But he may have eaten some of them.
 
And dogfighting is a crime. And I think dogfighters should be prosecuted, regardless of a dogs's natural hunting instinct. There is nothing "natural" about placing two dogs in a ring and goading them into fighting each other to the death. Call me a hypocrite but I refuse to see that as natural.

Paula, I've only read the first few posts in this thread, but another distinction I see is that you watching Ridgies hunt is because you adore this breed, not because you bet several thousand dollars on them catching the deer. Dog fighters do not fight dogs because they adore the breed's power, strenght and tenacity, they fight b/c they make money. If Bichons were strong like pits, they'd be using Bichons. There's no devotion, no loyalty.

You're not a hypocrite.

 
 
That was a great post simple but completely made sense to me.It's all about human greed and power. The people that fight dogs IMO are complete cowards.

if the dogs aren't eager to engage they aren't kept for fighting.

No, they are beaten, starved, used for bait, shot, frozen to death or poisoned.  Great "sport".  Dog fighting is archaic, illegal, and there should be no understanding or tolerance of it by humane people.
As to hunting, I really hate that, too, if the dog and human involved are only doing it for sport.  But, if you do it to feed your family, more understandable. 

I think this was a really productive discussion. Every now and again I check myself  - the old am I talking out my 'ear' (rhymes with bass)? So what I've learned: yes I love to watch my dogs hunt,  so I understand taking pride in your breed's ability. However, I don't beat, drown, electrocute my ridgebacks if they don't hunt well or get old, etc. This, BTW is an issue I have with sport animals anyway: case in point; greyhound racing. Same problems, IMO (legality aside). It's less about loving the breed at the peak of its ability and more about killing dogs that don't do their job. Same thing with horseracing.

I think the issue is beginning to gel for me. I don't like any of these activities where an animal is only as useful as his last good race, good fight, good 3-day event, etc. For all of them somebody claims to do the activity out of love, but has little use for the animal that doesn't function adequately. I think that's my real issue. I think.

Paula