Dog Community

Posted : 6/22/2007 4:22:28 PM

I don't understand how a law could be written that would protect byb/puppy mills, but harrass the reputable folks. Isn't BYB just a pejorative term for disreputable private breeder? How would the gov determine who's reputable and who's not?

Article 3. Permits

122336.2. (a) A local jurisdiction shall issue an intact permit,

as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 122336, if any of the

following conditions is are met:

[font="times new roman"]

(1) The owner demonstrates, by providing a copy of his or her

business license and federal and state tax number, or by other

proof, as requested required by the local jurisdiction or its

authorized animal local control agency, that he or she is doing

business and is licensed as a breeder at a location for which the

local jurisdiction or its authorized local animal control agency has

issued a breeder license.

from:

[linkhttp://www.ab1634.com/Files/ab_1634_bill_20070509_amended_asm_v95.pdf]http://www.ab1634.com/Files/ab_1634_bill_20070509_amended_asm_v95.pdf[/link]

Do we have any breeders with a business license or tax id number? Gina? I know a few but that's becasue their bus lic/tax id is attached to another dog-related business (doggie daycare, kennels, training, pro handler etc.)

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rwbeagles

Posted : 6/22/2007 5:25:16 PM

Nope...here it is not required unless you "go big".

Linda Unapplicable

Posted : 6/22/2007 5:25:58 PM

ORIGINAL: mrv

Ok discussion point, it may get a bit heated but I think we can all keep it civil. I have been working on trying to identify why mandatory spay neuter seems over kill to me....So, I came up with these analogies. No more wine with dinner at resturants because drunk drivers cause personal and property damage. So lets take it further, the resturant looses customers, employees get laid off, revenues go down, business closes. So rather than imposing alcohal free restruants, why not increase monitoring of traffic in the area of resturants and other establishments that have liquor permits.

To link that to spay neuter debate, commit to increased enforcement of leash laws, pick up/clean up laws, and licensing using a data base and home visits. Change licensing to reflect a rice break for neutered/spayed animals. Collect the data and evaluate in 1 year. One option for consideration.

Driving while intoxicated is against the law. What is comparibly against the law in regards to breeding? The guy down the street from me can breed every time his female comes into heat and dump the offspring at the pound legally. At least with the drunk driving laws, there is an actual law to tell people that what they are doing is wrong. There is no comparable law to tell people that they shouldn't breed irresponsibly. There's not even anything saying that irresponsible breeding really is irresponsible. That guy down the street thinks he's doing nothing wrong because he's not breaking any laws. Alternate opinions don't matter to him.

Linda Unapplicable

Posted : 6/22/2007 5:35:00 PM

ORIGINAL: buster the show dog

But apparently we can trust the general population to be responsible pet owners, at least to the extent of spay/neuter. Something like 80 % of dogs and nearly 90 % of owned cats are already spayed/neutered according to vet records in CA. And not all those remaining unspayed pets are breeding indiscriminantly. So, to use the alcohol analogy, what the proposed CA legislation is doing is imposing prohibition on the entire population because of the irresponsibility of a small percentage of pet owners. And we all know how stunningly well prohibition worked. Almost as well as all those laws against marijuana pocession in Humbolt county.

I don't really trust the validity of the statistics you cite, but let's say for the sake of argument that they are correct -- how would mandatory spay/neuter adversely affect those that already spay/neuter their pets?

Bobsk8

Posted : 6/23/2007 8:59:50 AM

ORIGINAL: agilebasenji

I don't understand how a law could be written that would protect byb/puppy mills, but harrass the reputable folks. Isn't BYB just a pejorative term for disreputable private breeder? How would the gov determine who's reputable and who's not?

[align=left]Article 3. Permits[align=left]122336.2. (a) A local jurisdiction shall issue an intact permit,[align=left]as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 122336, if any of the[align=left]following conditions is are met:[align=left] [font="times new roman"][align=left](1) The owner demonstrates, by providing a copy of his or her[align=left]business license and federal and state tax number, or by other[align=left]proof, as requested required [font="times new roman"]by the local jurisdiction or its[/font][align=left][font="times new roman"]authorized animal local control agency, that he or she is doing[/font][align=left][font="times new roman"]business and is licensed as a breeder at a location for which the[/font][align=left][font="times new roman"]local jurisdiction or its authorized local animal control agency has[/font][align=left][font="times new roman"]issued a breeder license.[/font][align=left][font="times new roman"] [/font][align=left][font="times new roman"]from:[/font][align=left][font="times new roman"][linkhttp://www.ab1634.com/Files/ab_1634_bill_20070509_amended_asm_v95.pdf]http://www.ab1634.com/Files/ab_1634_bill_20070509_amended_asm_v95.pdf[/link][/font][align=left][font="times new roman"] [/font][align=left][font="times new roman"] [/font][align=left][font="times new roman"]Do we have any breeders with a business license or tax id number? Gina? I know a few but that's becasue their bus lic/tax id is attached to another dog-related business (doggie daycare, kennels, training, pro handler etc.)[/font][align=left][font="times new roman"] [/font][font="times new roman"][/font]

If you are reporting income which is the law, you can either use your SS number, which most people do not want to give out, or a Tax ID Number, which takes the place of the SS # for tax purposes. Anyone can get a Tax ID number at no charge. If a breeder is not using a Tax ID number, and not reporting the dog sales that they make, they are most probably breaking the law and are subject to some jail time if caught.
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Bobsk8

Posted : 6/23/2007 9:04:52 AM

ORIGINAL: DogAdvocat

ORIGINAL: buster the show dog

But apparently we can trust the general population to be responsible pet owners, at least to the extent of spay/neuter. Something like 80 % of dogs and nearly 90 % of owned cats are already spayed/neutered according to vet records in CA. And not all those remaining unspayed pets are breeding indiscriminantly. So, to use the alcohol analogy, what the proposed CA legislation is doing is imposing prohibition on the entire population because of the irresponsibility of a small percentage of pet owners. And we all know how stunningly well prohibition worked. Almost as well as all those laws against marijuana pocession in Humbolt county.

I don't really trust the validity of the statistics you cite, but let's say for the sake of argument that they are correct -- how would mandatory spay/neuter adversely affect those that already spay/neuter their pets?

I guess that the animals that are costing the state of California approxaimately $2,000,000 a year to take care of in shelters must have been delivered by a stork.....[

] How on earth would vets have any idea of what percentage of cats and dogs are spayed? Do the cats and dogs that are not S/N walk into the vets office and tell the vet? Many people that I have met that don't bother to S/N their pets, don't bother going to the vet either.

ron2

Posted : 6/23/2007 5:32:27 PM

No more wine with dinner at resturants because drunk drivers cause personal and property damage.

Drinking and driving is willful neglect and disregards the law against it. In some states, if it results in an accident fatality, it is called DUI Manslaughter.

ron2

Posted : 6/23/2007 5:46:39 PM

I had read that in Missouri, a breeder found out to be a puppy mill can receive a $1,000 fine. The sale of one puppy pays that fine. It's just a business expense to a big, commercial breeder.

sillysally

Posted : 6/23/2007 8:43:20 PM

ORIGINAL: Bobsk8

ORIGINAL: sillysally

Can you legislate morallity?

Well, you can legislate anything, but it doesn't mean that the law is going to be worth any more than the paper it's printed on. Drugs are illegal, but I could easily buy any drug I wanted without leaving town. Prostitution is illegal (most useless law ever-- you can sleep with who ever you want to for free but heaven forbid someone pay you for it) yet if you have ever been to Las Vegas you know that "hooker cards" are handed out to people on the strip and the yellow pages are FILLED with ads for "full service exotic dancers."

So you would suggest that laws protecting people from robbery, murder, rape, child molestation, identity theft, should be abolished, because people break them anyway? [&:]

There is actually a big difference between the crimes that you stated and the crimes that I stated. Prostituation and drugs do not generally have direct victims (provided that the parties doing the drugs and taking money for sex are of age), all the crimes that mentioned do....

legislating morality