Dog Community

So Upset... :(

Posted : 5/3/2006 4:04:22 PM

I have a three month old Boston Terrier puppy. I've had him for almost two weeks. He already knows "sit" and "down" and he has to "down" before he leaves his crate and "sit" before he gets food, his favorite toy, before I come into the kitchen, etc.

The problem is, he is a biter. Now, I know all puppies are biters, but he just isn't learning that he can't clamp his jaws on me (hard) when I want to spend time with him. I've tried two techniques and they both seem to not be working: leaving when he does this (saying "no bite";) and putting him back in the crate when he does this (again, saying "no bite.";) He has learned to sit and down very quickly and does these very rapidly on demand. He does not, however, seem to be getting the whole "no bite" thing.

If he is just being mouthy, I replace my hand/leg/sweatpants with a nylabone and praise him. I also praise him to high heavens when he is not biting me.

Starting last night, everytime I went to get him out of his crate (after he went "down";) he came out and bit me HARD (broke skin.) It happened again this morning, and just as I got home. I went in my bedroom and cried for ten minutes. I tried going back in to see him again and after I stepped over the baby gate (after having him "sit";) he bit me again. This just can't be a game... he cries when I leave and I give it a while before I come back... I am just devistated that he is either not learning or is aggressive. It really seems more like play, but he just doesn't get it. I am not rough with him, and I do not baby him. I'm just so sad he keeps biting me (husband too) after two weeks when he obviously seems to have the capability of learning commands.

I have him signed up for a puppy socialization class starting next week. I suspect he was taken away from the litter too early. I also wonder if he is not getting enough exercise. We don't have a yard and I don't let him run free outside (although I do take him for short walks). I also let him run free in the kitchen when I am home.

Does anyone have any suggestions/recommendations? I'm so sad... I had just stopped by the pet store before coming home to get him new bones and he keeps biting me (oh yeah, the "ow!" thing didn't work for him... he tried to bite me more!) I still haven't given him his gifts and I still feel like crying... can someone help me?

cakana

Posted : 5/3/2006 4:11:37 PM

As frustrating as this is, please don't take it personal. He really is acting out as a puppy and will get past this in time. I don't have any great advice that differs from what you've been doing other than maybe trying the bitter apple spray. You could put it on your hands/arms and maybe getting a taste of that would be a deterrent. Not real hopeful on that, but it might work.
I think the puppy socialization class will help tremendously. I think you've hit on a good point about the exercise though. He really needs to get some of that energy out somehow. Is there any place you can take him to run, run, run? He's going to need that and even more so as time goes on. Unfortunately, a short walk isn't going to do much to get his frustrations and energy out.

rredbird

Posted : 5/3/2006 4:23:42 PM

You can also try coating your hands in Vick's Vapor rub - that worked better with Bandit as he ENJOYED the Bitter Apple! I sympathize with you but it does get better!

loveukaykay

Posted : 5/3/2006 4:39:24 PM

Reading your post made me sad... I feel your pain. I dont tho, have much advice for you other than hes a puppy and should stop. It sounds like hes got so much pent up energy that he loses it when he sees you and even if he "knows" he my forget in all the excitement... is this only when you first greet him after walking away?

I know this sounds extreme and dont know if its the right thing to do but you could put a muzzle on him while hes in whatever crate or wherever you usually leave him, thn walk away for 5 min or so then come back and greet him and praise a lot... cause then he cant bite you. Do this a few times, then try it with no muzzle... and when he bites you after that yell really loud to startle him and walk away... then go back to the muzzle thing. Maybe if you keep working like this eventually he will see that better things happen when he keeps his mouth shut!

I dunno, good luck!! Welcome!

Suzi

Posted : 5/3/2006 4:51:50 PM

Hmmm......... I remember those moments when JJ was a biter! 4-5 months later, she no longer bites and I thought that the day would never come. I too did what you did, get up and leave the room but you have to realize you only had him for two weeks and he's only THREE MONTHS OLD??!! He may know how to sit, stay and etc but it takes time because he's only a puppy. Half the time, the OWIE! Leaving the room thing works but half the time it don't. Many people told me to replace the biting with a toy or a bone. In which JJ barely pay attention to. Maybe it's the time when he get's new teeth and likes to bite more then usual?? Many times when JJ bites on me, I did the eye contact thing, I stay still, look into her eyes without a smile or anything and just a plain serious upset look until she soften up. It worked for me, hehe! Or put some bitter stuff on your hand, hmm......maybe get a spray watter bottle and give him a spray whenever it happens? Wish you luck!! [&:]

boneyjean

Posted : 5/3/2006 5:50:35 PM

I think it is normal puppy behavior. It is also possible that he does think it is a game b/c maybe the breeder or their kids played with him with their hands a lot. I know my husband has always boxed with our Boston so sometimes he goes after our hands in a playful way....he is 5 years old and never bites now, but did when he was a pup too....although he never broke skin.

I think a puppy class is a GREAT idea and they will be able to give you some good pointers as to how to stop this.

glenmar

Posted : 5/3/2006 5:52:32 PM

This absolutely IS normal puppy behavior and I truely think if you greatly increase the exercise, you'll find this behavior dropping off noticably.

boneyjean

Posted : 5/3/2006 6:06:09 PM

Oh yeah, Glenda mentioned exercise. I read this post earlier and then lost the internet and forgot to mention that.

If you don't have a big yard, you can always make your house into a play area too. I know my Boston LOVES to fetch a ball and we can wear him out with this. In the three houses I have lived in I have always had a hallway or doorway that I can throw a ball into for him to chase. Teach him to bring it all the way back and praise him for it while he is young....Harley likes to bring it just out of our reach and put it on the floor and taunt me with it, then the second I grab for it, he does too!
He and I also play chase around the house, taking turns, I chase him, then he chases me. He also likes tug-o-war which doesn't wear him out as much as it does me b/c he never lets go, but he loves to play it. We also have another game we play when he is tugging and won't let go and I want him to, I grab at his rear end and he will move around to get away while still tugging. This has now turned into sort of a tag game where I try to grab his rear with the "monster" hand and he runs around like a crazy boy!

They always say a tired dog is a good dog!

calliecritturs

Posted : 5/3/2006 6:12:26 PM

This hasn't been raised yet -- YOU have only had him for 2 weeks but do you have any idea when he was taken from mommy? Did you get him from a breeder? pet store? ???? (I'm just looking for information here -- not to jump on you).

This sounds like bite inhibition problems to me -- that's not inate knowlege - you have to teach them THAT HURTS. And teach them in a way Momma would do it.

Yes, when he mouths or nips, you YELP (not fake -- literally allow yourself to cry out in pain). If he persists, you have to make a point. Then if it were me, I'd stand up FULL HEIGHT and say 'YOU hurt me! No!" --

Another time I would grab his snout gently and CLOSE his mouth. I would utter a low growl in my throat and say "noooooooooooo". Literally like a growl This **is** what momma dog will do.

Don't laugh. Don't utter 'no' in a typical female high-pitched exclamation -- female voices can sound very very like puppy play yelps to a puppy. We women have to be very careful to speak in low tones to a pup. A momma dog will utter a low 'growl' before she does anything else. Do likewise.

When you walk away, shove something in front of him to chew on. Don't use the crate unless you absolutely must. You'd be better to invest in an x-open to use in the room -- simply move him off to the side where you are NOT. denying him your presence is a big huge deal to him.

I treat nipping and biting very seriously. I use positive methods all the time, but I also expect a dog to listen to me, so I use my own body language to communicate to him. Standing up STIFF and straight -- dogs watch for body language -- and seeing another animal 'tense' is something they do look for. If you stand stiff and straight, feet apart and arms either crossed or fists on your hips -- that speaks volumes to that dog that YOU are **not** pleased!!

But keep his lessons very short -- 3 minutes is a long time to a puppy. And just moving him across the room behind a barrier or baby gate is very effective. If you remove him time and time and time again -- he is gonna get the idea that if he's too rough you won't play.

Don't take it personally -- and DO get some books.

Mother Knows Best by Carole Lea Benjamin

How to Speak Dog by Dr. Stanley Coren

Two of my favorites.

glenmar

Posted : 5/3/2006 6:19:37 PM

We first moved to this area in February. Everything was frozen solid so we couldn't put a fence up. Anne suggested a LONG runner, so we did that...about a 50 foot length that we put up in some trees and then attached another runner from that for them to move around on. And we'd play fetch until our arms fell off....or we froze. Then, in our exploring the area, we found a GREAT running track and started taking the dogs there on weekends for off leash running. They were wonderful...stayed on the actual track, never touched the grass. And they could run laps until they dropped. DH was taking a break by the gate one day when one of the guys who maintains the track stopped by and told him dogs weren't allowed on the track, blah, blah, blah......just as I bent over to pick up a pile. The guy was totally blown away by that, and instantly changed his position and said it was FINE for us to bring the dogs anytime that the track wasn't in use, but just not to spread it around that he'd said it was ok, cuz too many owners are NOT responsible. My german shepherds would do 4-5 laps around that one mile track and be DONE for the rest of the day.

Now, you've got a small pup, so you only need a small area that's totally fenced.....and letting that pup RUN will do wonders for his nipping habit!

jennie_c_d

Posted : 5/3/2006 8:08:07 PM

you could put a muzzle on him while hes in whatever crate or wherever you usually leave him, thn walk away for 5 min or so then come back and greet him and praise a lot... cause then he cant bite you.

Nobody else said anything about this, but... It is NOT safe to muzzle a flat faced dog, and especially if you're going to walk away from him. Muzzling him will only flip him out completely. He's already breathing challenged. No reason to make it worse.

He *is* a puppy. He's extremely teachable, and there's no reason to go to extremes. What you're doing now, accompanied with LOUD yelping (yelp, walk away) works, but it *does* take time.

Julie Byers

Posted : 5/4/2006 9:07:21 AM

Where were all you guys when I went thru this with my first dog? You would have saved me lots of bites and frustration. I didn't know those things, and had only the 'caveman' method. All I could think of was puting my finger in the back of his throat. It did take only two times but it was pretty ucky and unpleasant. He did not bite anymore after that, but I would have preferred the methods you guys suggested. Callie's post about dog-mom language really hits home. Jules

2setters

Posted : 5/4/2006 11:48:55 AM

For sure, a certain amount of mouthiness is to be expected in a puppy. Mistakes are going to be made, and that's okay! However,  I take an intentional hard bite seriously.

If I were intending to be the puppy's littermate rather than his Momma and pack leader, I might react to a puppy bite by yelping.  As Momma and pack leader, if any puppy of mine lays his teeth into me hard, he is going to have a come to Jesus moment. I need to convey to him right away that he has made a heinous, grave mistake, and I need to do so in a way that he will understand but that will not hurt him.

Here is how I tell puppy he has done wrong:

If I catch puppy in the act of something very naughty, I will immediately and without anger hold the puppy's scruff of the neck and growl for a second or two. I may give one quick shake or, if the puppy has just done something very very bad like intentionally biting me, push the puppy down so he ends up on his back. It is a swift, firm, correction, and then the moment is over and we go back to whatever we were doing.

I do not pick the puppy up off the ground by the scruff of his neck, and I never ever hit him.

More than punishment, however, I try to set my puppy up to do the right thing. I give puppy lots of appropriate outlets for chewing, and lots of exercise. I avoid tug-of-war type games that might confuse him into thinking mouthiness is okay. I make it clear from the beginning that I am a kind and benevolent pack leader, but a leader nonetheless, and can touch puppy or his toys (which are really mine) or his food (which is really mine) whenever and wherever I want.

I'm glad you're going to a class! It's always good to have hands-on help!

glenmar

Posted : 5/4/2006 12:26:22 PM

I would advise against scruffing or alpha rolling a pup. I've heard it said many times that THIS is how momma disciplines, however I have NEVER seen this and I've seen one heck of a lot of litters through my doors.

2setters

Posted : 5/4/2006 1:21:41 PM

ORIGINAL: glenmar

I would advise against scruffing or alpha rolling a pup. I've heard it said many times that THIS is how momma disciplines, however I have NEVER seen this and I've seen one heck of a lot of litters through my doors.

I don't doubt at all that you've seen more litters than I, glenmar.
Surely, however, you have seen dogs take each other down both in play and in fights?

IME, scruffing or alpha rolling behavior between dogs has been exceedingly rare at my house because pack leadership is well established. It was also so quick it would easily have gone unnoticed.

Likewise, I can count on one hand the times in my life I have actually alpha-rolled a pup, because there simply hasn't been a need for correction. My emphasis has been on exercise, positive training, and setting my pups up to succeed right from the start. I eat first. I walk through the door first. I decide when to play, and when to stop. I decide who gets to sleep on the bed, if ever.

If my pup nips me because I've been playing rough and/or sticking my hands in his face, that's my fault and I'm not going to punish him.

There is a difference, however, if a pup bites hard enough to break skin outside of a playing situation.

Pups will grow out of teething and mouthiness. If they are biting because they think they are higher up on the pecking order, however, exercise is not going to solve the problem, IMHO.