vent about nagativity to Pibbles ><

I'm not saying they're worse than other dogs. I think they're absolutely fantastic- low shedding, tolerent of kids, easy-care coat, a fantastic size, athletic and attractive dogs with SUCH a happy attitude- and they're great workers, too. But their genetic heritage is a fact- they were bred to fight, and various dogs have various amounts of that in their genetic background. Breed temperament is, above all the pretty things, the reason we HAVE breeds  of dogs- dogs who were selected to do a job better than your average randombred mutt. That means a dog of a certain breed is more likely than a randombred dog or a dog of another breed, to display those traits that he was bred for. Environment doesn't control it entirely, although it CAN influence to some degree. Pit bulls DO have a higher chance of being dog aggressive than many breeds. Period. It's not a death sentance. It's just something to be aware of, live with, and understand. If you can't be honest about the breed and it's real character, you shouldn't own one, because you do more harm than good by spreading misinformation.


Cait

ORIGINAL: Pwca
I If you can't be honest about the breed and it's real character, you shouldn't own one, because you do more harm than good by spreading misinformation.

I agree.  I'm a pibble fan - a huge fan.  I think they are awesome dogs.  And they have an inborn tendency towards dog aggression. They are what they are - great people dogs who may not be all that with other canines.

I think its important to point out the difference between dog aggression and human aggression. I believe that a dog may become human aggression due to the way they are raised: neglect, poor socialization, abuse, maltreatment could, potentially, lead to human aggression in any breed of dog. It is also important to point out that human aggression is out of breed character for APBTs.

Dog aggression, however, IMO, should be *expected* with APBTs. Tyson, as of yet (he will be 2 in October) has not shown any signs of DA, he spent the majority of his life so far living with a miniature dachshund (up until now, as BF and I have moved in together permanently!! Yay!). This, though, is not to say that I am not aware of the fact that he may, one day, begin to show DA. As a responsible owner, if this were to occur, I would keep my dog and other dogs safe from his aggression, if I had another dog, I would keep them duly supervised and/or separated if necessary. I do not, though, have another dog.

Further, DA cannot be trained out of a dog, but it can be controlled/worked on. For example, training your dog to focus on you, and ignore other dogs is something that would have to be consistently done. Chewbecca is tirelessly working on *managing* Ella's DA.

DA and HA are completely unrelated forms of aggression.


For someone to point out that pits can be DOG aggressive, I don't think is ignorant. In fact, that statement is true. Dependent upon the way in which it is said, I also wouldn't necessarily consider it hurtful either.... though, when I walk down the street and people call my dog "vicious", that I don't like.

My response to your fiance would be something along the lines of that having the potential to be true, but that as a responsible owner, you could deal with it if that were the case. Pibbles need responsible owners.... The pros far outweigh the cons when it comes to this breed.

What i mean is, animal aggression, wont happen if you prevent it to begin with.
I know training cant tame a bred-to-be-agressive dog, all the time.
I never said it works all the time, but with training, obedience, and prevention, then you wont have to worry about your pit bull killing you infant or fighting your dogs. If you know the signs of a stressed dog, then its best you help it best you can, to become less stresssed,. if you see youre dog getting rowdy, and hyper, calm it down. That way It wont think its okay to be rowdy and crazy. Simple things like getting excited because of seeing a squirrel, can start a dog to dog fight.
  
    Dog agression is NOTHING like Human agression. It can be stopped if dealt with properly. I have yet to meet a family Pitty who is a blood thirsty killer. The only cases of a dangerous Pibbles Ive come across, are on the news, in the media, and magazines. The media blows stuff like this out of proportion, to make it more interesting. They will sell anything to get money. It doenst matter what its about, whether its true or false They dont care. they are only in it for the money.
   My mother told me of a pit bull case where the parents left an infant in its crib with a pit bull in the room with it. the pitty ripped the babies arm off.
Okay number one They were ASKING for that.
No one should EVER leave an infant or child alone with any dog.
Any dog can do that, esspecially to an infant.
   Doesnt matter if its in a crib, dogs will find a way.
Notice I say DOG. because pit bulls are not the only ones known for this! They just happen to be the center of attention at this time. I recall back in the 60s-70-s people were the same way about...what were they....Dobies? Yeah.
Same thing, different manner, thats all.
   There will always be s targeted dog. it just Happened to be pitties, as rap singers and people like Vick lead the pitty's to such negativity.
It's always going to be like this though. but if you can get enough people to Educate rather than discriminate, then the world would be a mcuh better place.
Too bad, nothing in life is ever really fair, huh?
Sassy, our pitty mix, has always been around other dogs, but if she ever showed agression, we;d prevent her fighting by locking them both in seperate rooms, me with her, and mom with the other dog, and play with them seperately, pet them calm them down,  get them both relaxed, let them BOTH know  that neither one of them is favored over the other, and that neither one of them will be the alpha in this pack. as soon as we get them calmed down, we take one of them out of the room, one at a time, and BOOM! they're fine. This has happend 3-4 times. ANY time we are away the dogs are seperated. They are NEVER left alone together unattended.
That's how it should be with any DA dog.
Thats how we handled it, and  works well. They all get play time alone, with one of the humans, for 15-30 mins.  just to insure that they arent being ignored or pushed away in any sort of way.
it really makes the house hold a much calmer place. We take all of them on seperate walks.
That way they are nice and calm when they get home.
Agression may be in the pit's blood, But it doesnt mean it cant be Prevented.

Um.. no, it can't always. That's what I'm saying. Please read what I wrote.    

ORIGINAL: Pwca

Um.. no, it can't always. That's what I'm saying. Please read what I wrote.    

The way I read it was that she was saying that the act of aggression towards another can be prevented through managment.....

Exactly SillySally. thank you.

ETA- I erased this part, as it, even to me, felt like a personal attack. pardon me.

ETA also- To any one who feels this way, I am not saying that pit bulls arent DA, or wont become DA, I'm just saying that in some to most of the cases, the pit bulls have been neglected in some form or way at one point or time to trigger it. if you know what  to do to ease it down a bit, then it wont be nearly as big a problem, as it would be if you just ignored it.
This was NOT meant to steer any one into thinking that i think pit bulls arent aggressive I KNOW they can. but not all pits are.

My experience has unfortunately been pretty much the opposite- people adopt pit bull or pit bull mix puppies because they've been told they can raise them right and they won't become dog aggressive. They socialize them, they bring them to the dog park, and they convince themselves that THEIR dog is obviously not like all those OTHER pit bulls you hear about, that they dodged a bullet and somehow their dog won't carry any breed traits like that.

This tendency nearly cost Malcolm his life as a 6 month old puppy. I'm amazed it didn't, and I'm amazed that he's had no lasting impact from it. He DID have SERIOUS bruising on his throat and a raspy bark for a few weeks. This DID cost the life of a corgi on Corgi-L back in 2001- a 4 month old Cardigan being walked on leash through an off-leash dog park (not a fenced area, but a whole park that allowed dogs to run unleashed. That happened in California, I may still have the news articles somewhere. What I'm saying is that you just can't make assumptions.

Dog aggression isn't a death sentance, and it's definately managable. But attributing it entirely to nurture is fallacious- in my experience, it's nearly always been genetic- not something that folks have inadvertantly caused by illtreatment or mismanagement, but just a basic part of the breed. Some of the WORST proponnents of this myth are well-meaning folks, typically involved in rescue, who just want people to give the breed a chance. By NOT preparing them for the possibility, you put other folks' dogs at risk- and any pit bull those folks adopt- because if they think they can train the dog 'properly', how many of them are going to be proactive and vigilant about managing the dog BEFORE something happens? How many are going to totally FREAK if- or when- something does?

Cait

Yes, I understand that completely.
I dont think any dog owner should tell them selves" My dog 'dodged a bullet and it won't carry any breed traits like that.' "
Me, I've seen plenty of pomeranians who are lovy and cute and cuddly, mine on the other hand, will literally turn his face away from yours if you put your face up to his, like some people do to get a lick from their dog. I found this out one day when i was checking out his loose tooth. I'd never stick my face in another dogs face for fun.  But as soon as he started turning his head away, i figured it was time to start some " I'm the boss, youre not" training.

So any one who thinks their dog some how managed to dodge the traits that are genetic, are crazy, its like they are cursing themselves from the moment they think that. because the dog could very well have, not dodged the genetics per se, but more likely ignored it, and the dog could very likely become agressive. HA or DA, either one. It's VERY possible. And i know Pitt bulls are known for this, but some can be controlled, it takes lots of time and care.
It wont nessicarily work every time, but at least you can say you tried your hardest. if my dog was like that, I deff wouldnt drop it off at a shelter or what not. I'd keep working with it and trying my best to prevent it from causing future break outs. ( that sounded like an achne comercial )

ORIGINAL: wysperwolf

What i mean is, animal aggression, wont happen if you prevent it to begin with.

Well, yeah. Aggression won't happen if you prevent it. Fires won't happen if you prevent them. Car wrecks won't happen if you prevent them. If you prevent something, then by definition, that something won't happen. But, the crucial question is how difficult prevention is. It's far more likely to be far more difficult to prevent acts of animal aggression in a dog that has been rigorously bred to be dog aggressive than in a dog that hasn't been bred to express that trait. It isn't being negative to acknowledge this pretty basic fact.

ORIGINAL: wysperwolf

I know training cant tame a bred-to-be-agressive dog, all the time.
I never said it works all the time, but with training, obedience, and prevention, then you wont have to worry about your pit bull killing you infant or fighting your dogs.

Training and obedience won't mean you won't have to worry about a dog aggressive dog fighting with other dogs. "Prevention" can, well, prevent fights, but what that prevention entails is absolute vigilance whenever two dogs are together, and absolute confinement whenever close supervision isn't possible. Some people are prepared to exercise this sort of vigilance, but it does a huge disservice to pit bulls and to dogs that they may live with or encounter to understate what this level of vigilance entails.

ORIGINAL: wysperwolf
If you know the signs of a stressed dog, then its best you help it best you can, to become less stresssed,. if you see youre dog getting rowdy, and hyper, calm it down. That way It wont think its okay to be rowdy and crazy. Simple things like getting excited because of seeing a squirrel, can start a dog to dog fight.

And because most people aren't willing to be ever vigilant that their dog not get excited about seeing a squirrel, among many other stimuli that can precipitate a fight, most people shouldn't own powerful dogs that are likely to become uncontrollable in that situation. It isn't being anti-pit bull or negative to acknowledge that. In fact, one of the most pro-pit bull things one can do is to constantly emphasize the challenges that owning this type of dog presents so that only people who are prepared to meet those challenges choose to own them.
 

ORIGINAL: wysperwolf
Dog agression is NOTHING like Human agression. It can be stopped if dealt with properly. I have yet to meet a family Pitty who is a blood thirsty killer. The only cases of a dangerous Pibbles Ive come across, are on the news, in the media, and magazines. The media blows stuff like this out of proportion, to make it more interesting.

I'm so tired of hearing about how pit bulls are "only" dog aggressive, as if I should be unconcerned that they would enjoy engaging in a fight with my dogs, and once a fight had started that they would be unlikely to stop until they or, far more likely, my dog was dead. Just because they may be perfectly friendly and adorable to humans doesn't mean that their interest in fighting with my canine friends is a trivial concern.

ORIGINAL: wysperwolf
  My mother told me of a pit bull case where the parents left an infant in its crib with a pit bull in the room with it. the pitty ripped the babies arm off.
Okay number one They were ASKING for that.
No one should EVER leave an infant or child alone with any dog.
Any dog can do that, esspecially to an infant.
Doesnt matter if its in a crib, dogs will find a way.

Okay, number one, very few parent's ASK for their infant's arm to be ripped off. They may do stupid things, or they may be momentarily distracted, or they may be downright negligent, but they rarely ASK for their child to be mutilated, and certainly the child doesn't ASK for it. I agree that no child or infant should be alone with a dog, but it is not true that "any dog" will rip an arm off of a child in a crib. While it may be true that a well bred pit bull has very very low tendency toward human aggression, it once again does a disservice to the breed to downplay the likelihood of a pit bull being poorly bred, or the potential of a poorly bred pit bull to inflict far more serious damage than your typical whippet for example.
 

ORIGINAL: wysperwolf
It's always going to be like this though. but if you can get enough people to Educate rather than discriminate, then the world would be a mcuh better place.

When it comes to dog breeds a big part of education should be discrimination. Breeds exist because different types of dogs were bred to express different behaviors. If one wants to maximize the proportion of dogs that remain in their original homes, and minimize the proportion of dogs that end up being dumped in shelters or neglected, a big part of education should be making sure potential owners are well aware of the likely problems as well as the likely good characteristics of a breed. To argue that one shouldn't discriminate among breeds is to deny the very basis of what a breed is.

ORIGINAL: wysperwolf
...Sassy, our pitty mix, has always been around other dogs, but if she ever showed agression, we;d prevent her fighting by locking them both in seperate rooms, .... and play with them seperately, pet them calm them down,  get them both relaxed,..... as soon as we get them calmed down, we take one of them out of the room, one at a time, and BOOM! they're fine. This has happend 3-4 times. ANY time we are away the dogs are seperated. They are NEVER left alone together unattended.
That's how it should be with any DA dog.
Thats how we handled it, and  works well. They all get play time alone, with one of the humans, for 15-30 mins. ....it really makes the house hold a much calmer place. We take all of them on seperate walks.
That way they are nice and calm when they get home.
Agression may be in the pit's blood, But it doesnt mean it cant be Prevented.

And you've given a pretty fair description of what's involved in that prevention. There is nothing negative about noting that lots of people don't live in a situation where any time a dog decides it wants to fight there is another person available to help separate the dogs, play with them separately, handle them separately, make sure they get separate exercise, walk them separately.... There's nothing negative about acknowledging that this all requires a lot more work than having a less dog aggressive dog, and that this isn't something that can be dealt with simply by providing training and socialization and "love".

Negativity against any breed bugs me no end.  But, unless I've missed something in your post, your fiance wasn't being negative.  The line he took is a responsible and realistic one, IMO.
 

It really bothers me how people make claims and pretend to know stuff but have no evidence to back what they said up

 
I am hearing you!!!!!  Do you mind if I make that my signature?????

ok.... my inlaws are haters... my husband is a converted hater - now i have to convince him that chows and dobermans are not killers either -
but that i have heard from the haters is that while pit bulls may not all be killers or fighters... once they start they are HARD to stop!!
that alone frightens most people. its one thing when a GSD snaps at your hand, or a doberman bites your leg.... they usually let go with the satisfaction of giving you a good nip. but the pitbull and bully types DO tend to get into "shark feeding frenzy" mode. they zone out and FOCUS on that target.
a lot of bully owners will tell you from first hand experience that a bull may not start the fight, but it will finish it.
and from my own experience the bully breeds do seem to attract any and all dogs with a death wish. Kaydee has been challenged, rushed and hassled by all sizes and breeds.. and all she was doing at the time was walking by my side (on leash) or laying by my side (on leash) or playing with her ball in the yard. but she is a confident dog. I think its because these breeds seem to excrete confidence and courage that can be intimidating to other dogs.

my father in law cant stand Kaydee and the feelings are mutual at times. the first time they met he was scared of her... so she growled at him - you're nervous? she's suspicious - but the second time they met they played ball together.. third time they met... he was back to nervous. He likes to point out any news articles that give bad press to bulldogs.... seems to think Kaydee will turn on us one day and we need to get rid of her before it happens. I just cant make him understand that 1. she worships us.... 2.she is NOT a junkyard pit bull.. which is his experience with bullies.... junkyardbred, starved, chained up and unsocial pit bulls.

Goodness grief people.
Ive said over and over, repeatedly, in my posts, that some pit bulls cant be prevented but at least you can say you tried your best to prevent.
And that if people know what they are going to get into when getting a pit bull, that if they cant take care of it, or do whats needed to take care of it, and make sure it stays out of trouble,  then they shouldnt buy one to begin with.
This post some how went from  my QUESTION - Has any one else known any one close to you that feels this way towards Pit bulls of any other kind of breeds? What do you think about them?- To a wole ragg on such-and-such post. Please grow up and stick with the OP. I didnt say anything about pit bulls NOT being aggressive, and i never said that prevention ALWAYS works.
chill please.

ETA-

When it comes to dog breeds a big part of education should be discrimination.

You completely missed what i was getting at by my post.
What i meant, was to educate people about pit bulls, let them know that not all pit bulls will be cold hearted killers. Not all pitbulls will be sweet loving family oriented dogs, but that doesnt make them any different than any other dog that will attack, which is any.
And that people should try to not disciminate against pitty's ( negativity, bans etc. etc.) But rather try and HELP the breed. Maybe no help can be done, in YOUR eyes. But to alot of other people, just ONE person can make a HUGE difference. Stop trying to put words in my moth please.


Gin- Thank you for staying on topic![]

Your boyfriend is correct. I LOVE pit bulls as much as anyone you WILL EVER meet. But it is a fact that loved or not, pits have dog aggression. Some may never bite another dog but some will. A responsible pit owner respects this and knows it, not denies it. This has nothing to do with PEOPLE aggression. Pits should NOT go to dog parks or be home alone with another dog. That's just good pit bull management. Own a break stick, crate dogs separately when you're gone, and avoid dog parks. Pits rule!!! Let's keep this world safe for them. We don't let greyhounds off leash to chase bunnies... we respect that instinct and keep them safe. Same deal for pits []

Like i said I know pits are capable of doooing that.
Thank you so much whippetsownme! =)

I was in fact not denying that some pit bulls can and will bite/attack no matter what some one says.
I'm aware that it can and will happen.