Little dog/Big dog people

Maybe I'm not being completely clear... I'll try one more time to explain my position, then I'll let it go.

ORIGINAL: kpwlee
so you can't tell an aggressive dog from a non- aggressive dog?

Well, if it's snarling, showing its teeth and lunging on the leash, yeah, it's aggressive or at least potentially so. If it's walking in heel position on a loose leash and I know it's seen me and my dog and it's in a controlled state, wagging its tail and not showing aggressive behavior, then I can be pretty sure it's not aggressive. But there's a whole lot of behavior and body language in between the two extremes. Unpredictable behavior.

And certain triggers can affect certain dogs.

I'm sure you've seen this video:
[linkhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvDcZ3f_f1I]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvDcZ3f_f1I[/link]

It's clear (TO ME) that this dog is showing signs that he's highly uncomfortable and even dangerous. But the unfortunate man clearly doesn't know what to look for. He TRUSTS the owner (who clearly doesn't even know his own dog). And it happens SO FAST.

you can't tell a well trained dog with responsibe owner and an untrained dog with an irresponsible owner?

From a few seconds on the street? No, not necessarily. How do you tell?

It, to me, isn't a secret gift to see the difference between and in control dog and an out of control dog

A dog can go from in control to out of control in one second! And if someone stoops to pick up their dog at that point, they're going to end up like the man in the video.

And yes I would be offended if someone walking with their dog saw us walking and swooped down and grabbed their dog for fear of us. 

Ok. That's certainly your choice to assume it's because of fear. More likely, it's simple prudence.

I KNOW people are not paying much attention to their driving, not because they might not.

So you KNOW I don't pay attention to my driving? Should I be offended? Becase in fact, I am an exellent driver, I pride myself on my driving, I don't speed and I've never had an accident. Why are you afraid of me?

Should someone do this when I am out walking with Bugs, I will be offended.  It is my belief that you are doing this because you are afraid I might allow him to attack.

Not that you would "allow" him, but like it or not, dogs are sometimes unpredictable.

Its a precaution taken because you think there might be an attack.  If you thought there was no risk you wouldn't do it.

True. There's POSSIBILITY of an attack. It might happen. There is SOME risk.

To be clear, by offended I mean that you are making a negative assumption(s) about me and my dog and I think thats rude, similar to the response of the small dog owners on here who are offended when people have posted that lots of small dogs are not trained properly.

I think you may have misunderstood. When 2 dogs/owners (who don't know each other) approach each other on the street, there are 3 ways to think of it.
1) I can assume the other dog is friendly and not worry a bit.
2) I can realize the possibility for an incident because dogs are not 100% predictable and neither are owners. I can then take precautions against any POSSIBLE incident.
3) I can assume that because it's a big dog, it's probably an untrained and aggressive dog and assume the owner is worthless and hasn't trained their dog at all.

I'm taking precautions under #2. You're responding to #3.

To finish, do what you feel you need to do, to be happy, however you cannot govern how I feel about your actions.  I won't be convinced that it isn't sending a negative message and you won't be convinced that its unnecessary.  Vive la difference

Exactly. Something we can agree on. [sm=happy.gif] I don't want to govern how you feel. Clearly you've chosen offense in this particular situation and that's totally up to you. I was just explaining why a person with small dogs might want to pick them up and how it's no reflection on you or your dog.

BTW, I don't have little dogs. I just understand what it's like to take full responsibility to protect my dogs. Under any circumstances. I know what it's like for people to cross the street to avoid my dogs. I don't blame them! Look at Jaia! To someone with a tiny poo-poo dog, he looks like a giant! His teeth are nearly as big as their head. They haven't offended me. They're protecting their dogs against what could be (but wouldn't be) a possible problem and I commend them. They don't know that Jaia is a big galoomp that wouldn't hurt a fly and he loves puppies and small dogs. They just don't know.

What would you do if you went on a walk one day and where you usually walk, were 3 horses standing there perfectly still with their owners holding their reins, and your normal path would lead you right behind all 3 horses... Would you trust the horses and the owners that your dog wouldn't be kicked in the head and killed? Or would you cross the street to make sure everyone was safe?

I don't mean to pick on you, really, and I understand your position, too, because I used to feel the same way. I have just come to look at it differently and I was thinking that maybe you (and others reading this thread) might get something out of my experiences. I'm not trying to talk you into anything and I don't think badly of you. I just wanted to explain.

I hope there are no hard feelings. []

no hard feelings - not my style  []

I could sit here and try to once again respond to each statement but I won't.  i won't even respond to the ones that I'd like to because I think its pointless.
we have different beliefs and perceptions about this topic, mine might change in time should I witness a dog that I see as non-aggressive turn instantly into a killing machine.  I have never had that experience yet so perhaps that is why I can't understand a 'dog person' not being able to tell the difference.  most of you are more schooled in dogs than I.
May be I am naive to think I can see an aggressive dog and a non-aggressive dog, I guess then it is well and good that I prefer large - XL dogs.
In your scenario of 1, 2, 3 - I  work on principle 1 - you see I think the best of people first and see if I am wrong,  I do not think the worst case scenario first. Additionally I am not a fearful person so i don't go around afraid of everyone or every dog I meet.
Lets just say that those who suggest it must stink to be offended by people that carry their small dogs past us (again not witnessed it) I think it must stink to think that every large dog is out to eat your dog. I'm glad I have more faith in people and dogs than that.

PS re driving I was clear to state that in 'my area' which is NC not NM.  I have lived in 8 states & 2 countries and never in 25 years of driving seen what I see here and read about ( fatalities) like I do here.  I have become more defensive here because of that.  And it has never crossed my mind to not use a seatbelt - its how I learned and I feel 'naked' without it. 

As for the horse situation - If the horses were stationary and not moving I would just make sure that my dog just kept moving along at a very close heel.  Just like I do if an out of control dog is present.  As stated earlier I have made him step off a trail and wait while someone passes - interestingly I do that because I think its polite.    i have always been aware of his size and strength and respect it, therefore I have worked very hard to make sure that he is well behaved, perhaps that is why I think its rude for you (universal) to assume that he might attack you.
anyway I said too much again
this really is one of those things that to each his own.  you want to pick up your dog - do it.  I don't need to say, yes I can see why you do it and I won't.

ORIGINAL: kpwlee

so you can't tell an aggressive dog from a non- aggressive dog?

Again, it isn't always an "aggressive" dog that will go after little dogs. Some dogs have a higher prey drive than others and aren't "mean", they just see the small dogs as prey.

Edited to add that you think the small dog owners are overreacting when they immediately pick up their small dogs when they see a large dog. Did you ever think about how many close calls they may have had with a big dog almost attacking their small dog? [&:] I know I wasn't so careful with my dogs until I had several very close calls. If you had that happen with your dog you may be a little more understanding.

The owners are just doing their best to protect and take care of their dogs. It's better to err on the side of caution than to have your dog dead or seriously injured.

Folks, I've seen some pretty rude comments here.  Can we all take a deep breath?
 
OK, I personally have never picked up one of my small dogs when a larger dog approached, but I've also never had one brutally attacked, so I'm guessing that experience might color my attitude a bit.
 
I yeah, do admit that it slightly miffs me when someone automatically assumes that my dog could be dangerous, but again, I've never had my small dog brutally attacked.  I try to keep that in mind when I start to get annoyed when I'm out walking.  It also slightly annoys me when people cross the street to avoid my dogs, but hey, whatever.  takes all kinds.
 
We ALL have a different point of view depending on our life experiences.  So, how about we all just agree to disagree?
 
Posted as a mere member

Now that I think of it, I didn't pick my small dogs up until we were attacked. You learn fast or you risk it being a worse outcome than surgery and long recovery. Our job is to keep our dogs safe, big or small.

ORIGINAL: FourIsCompany

Maybe I'm not being completely clear... I'll try one more time to explain my position, then I'll let it go.

ORIGINAL: kpwlee
so you can't tell an aggressive dog from a non- aggressive dog?

What would you do if you went on a walk one day and where you usually walk, were 3 horses standing there perfectly still with their owners holding their reins, and your normal path would lead you right behind all 3 horses... Would you trust the horses and the owners that your dog wouldn't be kicked in the head and killed? Or would you cross the street to make sure everyone was safe?

I'd ask if the horses were OK with dogs, and if the answer was yes I would put my dog in a heel, put myself between the horse butts and the dog, and carry on. 

I've actually had a situation where I've had to walk Sally on one side of me and a horse on the other--no bloodshed.

Honestly, it doesn't bother me one bit if a small dog owner picks up his/her dog when I approach with either, or both, of my dogs. That person is just looking out for the safety of their dog. Little dogs can be seen as prey as many have mentioned, and cannot defend themselves should a medium or large sized dog attack. Aggressive or just "hunting", the bigger dog can easily do damage. If I cross the street in a crosswalk (which I must do daily) with my dogs and see a car speeding towards us, I'm going to either pick my dogs up and get out of the way(somehow...lol) or run to the other side of the street and pull them to safety. I don't know if the car will slow down or not. Should I just continue at my pace as to not offend the driver (not making him/her look like a crazy, bad driver)? No. The safety of my dogs and me comes first.
 
Cadie wanted to go after a tiny dog the other day that was in its yard and we were a good distance away. She is not dog aggressive at all, she just saw it as prey. If she had gone after it and realized it was a dog, she most likely would have stopped then and there. But by then, it could be too late.

ORIGINAL: sillysally
I'd ask if the horses were OK with dogs,

My sister-in-law's dog was killed by her own horse. And they knew each other and interacted many times.

Asking is certainly a workable option, but also no guarantee. If I had a little dog and the opportunity to ask, I would, too. [] I was more talking about the scenario where there was no communication between the dog owners. It's been suggested that a small dog owner just trust that no big dog is going to hurt them unless they show aggressive signals. In obedience class, they taught that to assume any 2 dogs are going to get along is careless. You watch carefully until you can make an educated judgment. And still, there might be problems. And to walk behind a horse is NEVER something to be done on an assumption.

But if you have the opportunity to ask, yes, that would be best. [sm=happy.gif]

And yes, glenmar, I'm content to agree to disagree. I admit I'm overprotective. Even of my big dogs. Especially Jaia. I always have been and I'm sure that's a fault of mine. But if anyone or any animal ever hurt him, I'd ... I don't know what I'd do. He's my heart. And I don't mean to offend anyone by making sure he's safe.