President Obama's Speech in Ghana

    • Gold Top Dog

    I guess from what I've heard that hasn't been the case, their system is perfectly capable of "triaging" based on severity.

    I don't think any system is perfect.  But it speaks volumes to me that all of the other countries above us on the HDI have some form of standardized, subsidized health care.  It seems ignorant of us as a nation to think that our system is actually working because the numbers prove it is not.

    • Silver

    I have half my family living in Canada and they  complain about the health care. My BIL had to wait 8 months to get an operation on his knee, this after waiting 5 months just to get it diagnosed. He is a fisherman so he couldn't work for a year just waiting to get it done.

    I really am against socialized health care. I do agree health insurance is too expensive, but I wish they would look into other options deeply before going the socialized route. I think Obama is in way over his head and is rushing through things without really figuring things out. I really am disappointed in things he has done, but can't say the alternative would have been better. I hope to get someone running next time that I can believe in, but I don't have high hopes.  Even better I hope Obama does such a good job that he will get my vote in 4 years, but again I don't have high hopes.

    I have never had to wait for a Dr. appointment or to get any tests done and I don't want to start now. I have seen my insurance go way up this year and my co-pays double. So far this year our take home pay is less than last year  at this time after insurance payments, I can only assume next year will be even less.

    I have heard quite a few people complain about not having insurance as they get into brand new SUV"s on the way to their cottage in the mountains. Makes me shake my head.  I would rather see bigger tax breaks to companies that provide healthcare plans, and also a cheaper rate depending on how many in a family. A family of 6 pays the same here as a family of 2. Seems to me, that as my kids get older and get their own plans, my cost should go down.

    I have 2 kids in college, luckily they are on my insurance still, but if they weren't, the colleges around here adds another $1700. to their bill yearly to insure them. just what a college kid needs added onto their college loan.

    • Gold Top Dog

    I guess my dilemma is that I don't see any other workable solution.  It's either socialized health care, or there is no such thing as health care/insurance and people simply pay fair market value for appointments, tests, surgeries, etc.  The latter I guess most the makes sense as far as value and fairness, but I don't see it ever being implemented.

    What other options are there?  How do they work and where have they worked successfully?

    • Gold Top Dog

    Universal Health Care came into effect in Canada in 1968. It was originally designed for a different time and has been an evolving system since then although the concept of 'free medical access' has remained the corner stone of the program - despite the fact it is anything but free. The cost of Health Care in Canada is about 10% of our GDP. One of the misconceptions is that Canadians can only access medical care through the gov't run system which has resulted in excessive time delays and restrictions on personal choice. Like Americans, I can open my wallet and basically see any doctor, have any test, have any surgery or treatment I want, at any time. If however, I am unwilling or unable to pay out of pocket, I am still assured of receiving medical care. Do I have to wait? For some diagnostics and surgery - yes I will have to wait my turn ahead of those in front of me or those in more serious condition, but I don't have to wait until I can afford it. Which for many people is never.

    Our system is not perfect. It is expensive and it relies on those who have money to pay for those who don't. That is the nature of our country in many respects. Some complain. Some are grateful. Some just think it's the right thing to do.
       

    • Gold Top Dog

    I will admit I know little in the whole "socialized medicine" vs. current insurance set up debate, but I do still laugh at the idea that we don't have absurd wait times for diagnostics in the US.  My mom was going to have to wait until FEBRUARY to see a specialist related to a condition they were in the process of diagnosing.  The system decided she wasn't high enough priority and thus she would have had to wait for 8 *months*.  Luckily further tests ruled out the need to see the specialist, but that's a situation comparable to some cited in the socialized medicine debate and it happened right here in the US last month with someone *on* insurance.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Exactly.  Maybe DH and I just don't have the right health problems but so far our wait times and issues getting insurance to cover things have been a bitch and our Canadian friends cling to their system.  Not to put her on the spot but I've been watching Kitty's threads on the testing she's having for possible Crohn's because I know she is in Canada.  So far nothing has taken any longer than anyone else I've know who had to be tested and then diagnosed with Crohn's (or another autoimmune problem).

    • Gold Top Dog

    I usually stay out of these debates; however, one thing scares me deeply is the priortization of who receives care based on viability.  My parents friend has been waiting 2 years to have his knee taken care of in Canada.  They basically told him that he is too old and it isn't cost effective to have it done since he is already in his late 60's.  So he waits and is now wheelchair bound because he cannot walk and cannot afford to pay out of pocket because his country doesn't feel his life is worth spending the money on to have the surgery.  This scares me. 

    • Gold Top Dog

    That is scary, Lisa.  In this day and age, someone in their late 60s could easily have 20+ years left and being unnecessarily wheelchair bound will seriously impact the quality of that time.

    Joyce

    • Gold Top Dog

    As many of you know, I voted for the other guy. Not so much for him as his running mate, who was much stronger but not adequately prepared.

     Anyway, I think it is good for the pres to reach out to other nations. Where I disagree with Obama is his view on AGW (anthroprogenic global warming) and his solution, the cap and trade, as well as the G-8 summit to limit CO2.

    Please forgive me for introducing some science but it will help explain my position. CO2 is not the greenhouse gas most people think it is. CO2 only absorbs and re-emits at 3 frequencies. And because the two isotopes, CO2-12 and 13, are so stable, it only does this for a limited interval, becoming "saturated" and no longer capable of contributing heat. CO2 does not cause temp increase, it follows it. This is evident, even in Gore's "hockey stick" graph borrowed directly from Mann. In fact, CO2 increases on average, 800 years after temp increases. If we decrease our CO2 emissions, as America, by 80 percent by 2050, we will have theoretically, and I do mean theoretically, have limited temp rise to a fraction of a fraction of 1 percent. That is about .002 C. In essence, none at all.

    There has been no warming since 2000 and there has been stasis and cooling, with the last two years being remarkably cooler. In fact, in two years, the global temp has returned to what it was in 1979.

    What heats the atmosphere is solar activity. Solar Cycle 23 was half of 22. Solar cycle 24 has yet to start, placing the Sun's activity below the Dalton Minimum. The Dalton Minimum was responsible for the Little Ice age, of which 1816 was the coldest part, with the highest temp in August in North Carolina of 40 F. It was the year without a summer. Over 600 scientists, including John Christy, formerly lead author of the IPCC report, have removed their support of the IPCC reports.

     Antarctica has been growing thicker in snow and ice sheets by feet per year. 95 percent of the glaciers have been growing thicker. And no, we are not killing the polar bears. They now number 25,000, thanks to endangered status. They have survived eons of warm periods that were several degrees warmer than today. They don't need the cold and ice to survive. They need fish and seals.

    For goodness sake, Dickinson, North Dakota had 6 inches of snow. In June. Last week or so, thanks to rain and a cool front, I had a local high of 79 F. In July. In Texas.

    Nature operates on negative feedback. Clouds (water vapor) is the real greenhouse gas. It can hold heat in but also reflects heat back out to space.

    Yet Obama wants to tax the coal industry out of business and has said so in interviews. The monstrous tax to be placed on coal and gas fired electrical plants will double your rates and it will make easy power unaffordable for developing countries, such as Ghana. He may feel for them but this G-8 policy will keep them in the 3rd world.

    Not only does Obama not seem ready to study the real science, instead of computer models that are grossly flawed and mostly debunked, but he will not support nuclear power, which is nearly, carbon free, not counting the construction process.

    I want him to do well and I understand the desire for unity and tolerance and those are great things, indeed. But driving us broke is not the way to do it. And keeping the developing nations from developing won't help, either. Now, someone will come along and say, "what about solar power?"

    Average costs for installing a solar power system are about $23,000, cash, to you, the average consumer. And it won't provide for all your needs. A free clinic in Africa has solar power. They can run the fridge or the t.v. But not both. What do you mean you can't afford $23k? Well, neither can I. And there will be massive lay-offs and a bankruptcy of the unemplyment benefits programs when the people who work for regular power companies lose their jobs. And the people they can no longer afford to buy stuff from lose their jobs.

    Wind power also has low return for action received. The wind does not blow constant enough to generate stable power. It is also expensive to to install. Just look at T. Bon Pickens and his now defunct power company. He can't afford the units he's ordered and there's more to building transmission lines than just talking about it, something he learned the hard way.

    Upshot is, if you want to help countries like Ghana, give up the AGW religion.

    Obama has a great reponsibility at a crucial time in history, just as crucial as Bush had with 9-11. I hope he does the right thing. Though we may disagree on what the right thing is.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Wow Ron. That is really interesting. And I think a clear example of why I'm not so much a big fan of him. He talks the talk, but I don't think he really delves in and does the research. And I don't think the staff he surrounds himself, whose job it is to find out those details, shares those with him, or effectively explains it to him. I guess I feel like he lacks foresight and the ability to see the long term effects of the things he wants to impose. And while I think that global unity is a most admirable cause, I think that that cannot happen until we take care of things at home. If we are limping along and and barely making ends meet how can we as a country help those less fortunate than us. And how will other countries who are better off want anything to do with us as far as trade if they lose respect in our ability to support ourselves. I think priority one is to fix our problems, priority two is to reach out to others.

    • Gold Top Dog

    denise m

    Our system is not perfect.  It is expensive and it relies on those who have money to pay for those who don't.    

    Isn't this the crux of our problem here in the US?  The people with crappy insurance or no insurance at all don't get the things done that they need, either.  And the people without insurance often end up in the ERs for things that really should not need to be treated there; frequently, they cannot pay their bills, so the rest of us pay higher costs in insurance, co-pays, and other out-of-pocket expenses.   In some aspects, our system is no better than Canada's, but what the answer is, I don't know.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Yep, Tina.  It's all fine and dandy for us Americans to complain about a system we've never tried, but most of us here are probably insured and can come up with emergency funds if we need to.  How do we account for the tens of millions that are not insured, knowing that under our current system that number will continue to grow?  Or do we just not care as long as we've covered our own asses?

    • Gold Top Dog

    I found this opinion article by a Canadian doctor to be quite interesting: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124451570546396929.html

    It basically said that countries with socialized medicine are actually moving away from it and offering more options in the private sector.

     

    And here's another one for you, from the Heritage Foundation.  It covers pitfalls in Obama's plan and offers alternative solutions:
    http://blog.heritage.org/2009/06/18/open-letter-on-health-care/

     

    • Gold Top Dog
    ewin0210

    Wow Ron. That is really interesting. And I think a clear example of why I'm not so much a big fan of him. He talks the talk, but I don't think he really delves in and does the research. And I don't think the staff he surrounds himself, whose job it is to find out those details, shares those with him, or effectively explains it to him. I guess I feel like he lacks foresight and the ability to see the long term effects of the things he wants to impose. And while I think that global unity is a most admirable cause, I think that that cannot happen until we take care of things at home. If we are limping along and and barely making ends meet how can we as a country help those less fortunate than us. And how will other countries who are better off want anything to do with us as far as trade if they lose respect in our ability to support ourselves. I think priority one is to fix our problems, priority two is to reach out to others.

    Emily, I have to comment on this as it is really one of the sole issues that I feel very strongly about, and have a little knowledge and insight about. I agree that we have to help ourselves before we can help others (in fact, my relationship is falling apart at the moment because of that very idea), however, one of President Obama's main points driven home during that speech was that Africans need to help themselves, that no one is going to be able to fix all of their problems from the outside. Sure, we can provide assistance *where we can*, but the atrocities facing that nation need to be fixed through the people of Africa.

    Also, Africa is a nation that has been forgotten, ignored, dismissed, and torn apart for far too long. Simply the fact that Obama visited the nation, addressed the people, acknowledged the hardship of the nations and the continent at large, and said "America cares", is enough to get the whole world moving. The responsibility should not, and will not fall on our shoulders alone.

    Lastly, I do not want to discount the hardship that anyone is experiencing during this economic crisis, or that socialized medicine may bring about, but the unspeakable turmoil and hardship that the people of many, many countries in Africa have experienced, that until recently has gone, literally, unspoken, deserves a "Hey, we understand whats going on with you, I'm here to motivate you, tell you we care, and reach out a helping hand, and I can only hope that what I say here will get others going for our cause." This sentiment is long overdue, let alone any action.

    If we continue to let our priorities be "take care of ourselves before we reach out to others", then in all fairness, genocide, child soldiering, malaria, the AIDS epidemic, and orphaning could go on forever. Someone (with influence) has to stand up. I am proud of President Obama for being that person.

    His message is not one of pity and full blown generosity, rather, a message about unity in diversity, one that desperately needs to be spread.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Thank you, alieliza.  As someone who has been to Africa and has studied development in Africa with African people, it's nice to see that not everyone lives in a bubble.  I think you have a very healthy, informed view on politics and development.