Muzzling Ella for walks? I'm undecided and would like some opinions.

ORIGINAL: Dog_ma

ORIGINAL: chewbecca
Couldn't I then also be considered a bad owner to my dog if I allow her to get attacked by an off leash dog aggressive dog if we were ever to encounter one and my dog couldn't defend herself? Wouldn't that then cause trust issues with me and my dog?

Yes, and trust is hard to rebuild. I work at it every day with Sasha. It has been three years since she was attacked.

Sasha has Ella ears!

She's so cute.

Sorry, I went OT on my own thread, but I just had to say that.[]

ORIGINAL: Bobsk8

I think having a dog that you know is aggressive and has already attacked another dog, and not using a muzzle is asking for trouble, and some people would call it irresponsible. If your dog attacks another dog or starts a fight where someone gets bitten, the end result is that you may get sued, and you dog will probably be put down.  

I think this is good advice.  If this was a one time action on her part in self defense, and she was not aggressive to other dogs normally, I'd say can the muzzle.  But, if you know that she is Da and not simply leash reactive, then the muzzle could save her life.
Despite the fact that you have her on leash, there are some jurisdictions that will issue an order to euthanize if she were to seriously injure or kill another dog.   If she thinks the muzzle is cool because she keeps getting really good stuff any time it is on, she won't be damaged.  Do carry Direct Stop, and a walking stick if you feel you need it, though, since she will be unable to defend herself.  And, read "Click to Calm".  You may not be able to rehab a DA dog that is DA by virtue of genetics, but you can make great strides at keeping her attention focused on you, and not on the dogs walking by.
Also, no one was suggesting your dog is human aggressive, but humans often get injured in dog fights - when dogs are aroused it is much easier to redirect a bite onto a human without really intending it - the human is just in the way at the time.
If you own a bully breed, you must be extra careful not to have any occurrence that will lead to people wanting to ban the breed.  Be responsible and do the muzzle.
BTW, if your dog is leashed and muzzled and the other dog isn't, at least the other dog will get all the blame.  Plus there is the added benefit that people may just grab their dogs sooner when they see her, and not let the situation occur in the first place.
I'd rather repair a relationship than take my dog's ashes home in a box.  And, with this breed, that's what happens.  My town just ordered an 8 month old pup PTS because she followed her "brother" who killed another dog.  The pup had no blood on her, and the ACO said he didn't think she intended the harm that the first dog did, but she's going to die anyway.

ORIGINAL: Bobsk8

ORIGINAL: chewbecca

ORIGINAL: Bobsk8

I think having a dog that you know is aggressive and has already attacked another dog, and not using a muzzle is asking for trouble, and some people would call it irresponsible. If your dog attacks another dog or starts a fight where someone gets bitten, the end result is that you may get sued, and you dog will probably be put down.

My dog is dog aggressive, not JUST aggressive. There is a distinct difference between human aggressive and dog aggressive.

She won't bite ANY human. The only dog she'll get is an off leash one.

I'm NOT irresponsible and walk my dog OFF leash.

The fight she got into was unfortunately MY fault, but it's been prevented from EVER happening again.


Yes, isn't it unfortunate that I should have to muzzle my dog because OTHER owners are irresponsible and allow their dogs off leash?

There is a very fine line between a dog being dog aggressive and it escalating into a situation where a human  gets bitten, and it happens quite frequently.  The DA dog attacks another dog, someone tries to protect their dog that is being attacked by breaking up the fight , and gets bitten in the process. If it is shown that your dog has a history of being  DA, then you will probably be blamed for the entire  incident. 

The fact that you asked your question in the first place, tells me that you are uncomfortable with having your dog without wearing a muzzle and the possible consequences of your decision.

A human being bitten in the midst of breaking up a dog fight does not mean a dog is human aggressive. That is not what human aggression is, at all.
That is a horrible example.

Though I *think* I can see what Bobsk8's view is, the comment did kind of come off like it was being said that if a dog accidentally bites someone during a fight, that the dog was human aggressive. But now that I've re-read it, I don't think that's what Bob meant.


And, unfortunately, I think I will be muzzling Ella. I'll just have to make it a great experience for her and work her a lot on our walks.

I want to get her a pretty (maybe even leather) basket muzzle.
I know these aren't basket muzzles, but I think I can still treat her through these, so I emailed this company.
[linkhttp://www.hotdogsalldressed.com/specialty.html]Hot dogs all dressed[/link]
to see how to go about measuring her for their muzzles and how to order one.

Right now I have a plastic basket muzzle and it's harder and I want something a little softer for her face.

Humans get bit when they break up dog fights the wrong way. It doesn't mean anything about either dog being purposefully aggressive towards humans. I've been bit breaking up fights and honestly the dogs do not see the human when they are full-on trying to get at another dog. They get tunnel vision and if you get in their way with their teeth and claws a-blazin, you can and will get bit or scratched. If that's the standard by which you're judging aggression in dogs, all of our dogs are potentially human-aggressive.

Having said that, not everyone (obviously) is really aware of that fact and I'd hate to see an incident where Ella does accidentally bite a human trying to assist in breaking up a fight (heaven forbid) and that human does not understand that it was an accident and now Ella has a human bite history.

exactly.

I think I knew my decision on this matter before I even made this thread.

I don't know which I feel worse for: Having to muzzle her or the confidence I'd gain back having her muzzled on walks. If I'm more confident in walking her, then I can work better on her training and training with distractions and get her to focus on me more instead of freaking out and panicking once we get a certain distance in our walks and having to turn around and go back home because I'm overwhelmed everytime I hear a dog bark in the distance.

Does anyone know where I can get pretty, decorative BASKET muzzles?

ORIGINAL: chewbecca

Though I *think* I can see what Bobsk8's view is, the comment did kind of come off like it was being said that if a dog accidentally bites someone during a fight, that the dog was human aggressive. But now that I've re-read it, I don't think that's what Bob meant.


And, unfortunately, I think I will be muzzling Ella. I'll just have to make it a great experience for her and work her a lot on our walks.

I want to get her a pretty (maybe even leather) basket muzzle.
I know these aren't basket muzzles, but I think I can still treat her through these, so I emailed this company.
[linkhttp://www.hotdogsalldressed.com/specialty.html]Hot dogs all dressed[/link]
to see how to go about measuring her for their muzzles and how to order one.

Right now I have a plastic basket muzzle and it's harder and I want something a little softer for her face.

The important thing is not what "Bob thinks" on a dog forum, or what you personally think, it is what the law and the courts think  That is why I would take the safe approach if it were my dog,   and muzzle the dog......

Does anyone know where I can get pretty, decorative BASKET muzzles?

I'll try to find some more, this is all I've found.....here are some leather basket muzzles. While they are not glamorous or anything, they look better (and I'm guessing feel better) IMO than wire basket muzzles, and would blend in with Ella's fur.
[linkhttp://www.kristalas.com/muzzles.htm]K9 Muzzles | Leather Basket Dog Muzzles | Canine Muzzles[/link]

ORIGINAL: Bobsk8

ORIGINAL: chewbecca

Though I *think* I can see what Bobsk8's view is, the comment did kind of come off like it was being said that if a dog accidentally bites someone during a fight, that the dog was human aggressive. But now that I've re-read it, I don't think that's what Bob meant.


And, unfortunately, I think I will be muzzling Ella. I'll just have to make it a great experience for her and work her a lot on our walks.

I want to get her a pretty (maybe even leather) basket muzzle.
I know these aren't basket muzzles, but I think I can still treat her through these, so I emailed this company.
[linkhttp://www.hotdogsalldressed.com/specialty.html]Hot dogs all dressed[/link]
to see how to go about measuring her for their muzzles and how to order one.

Right now I have a plastic basket muzzle and it's harder and I want something a little softer for her face.

The important thing is not what "Bob thinks" on a dog forum, or what you personally think, it is what the law and the courts think That is why I would take the safe approach if it were my dog, and muzzle the dog......

I know, Bob. I'm muzzling her. It's OK, I wouldn't base my sole decision making on what one person on the internet thought anyway. I obviously have been having the thoughts going through my head anyway, and wanted some dog people's opinions.

human being bitten in the midst of breaking up a dog fight does not mean a dog is human aggressive. That is not what human aggression is, at all.
That is a horrible example.

 
He doesn't say the dog is people aggressive, just that they got bitten while trying to protect their own dog.  My husband got between a charging, snarling pit bull and our 11 1/2 year old golden retiever  Not a smart thing to do, but a reaction to try to prevent our old guy from being hurt.  The pittie's owner came running and grabbed him and even so he was still trying to get at Buck.  I don't think he every looked at hubby.  But had he attacked Buck and hubby tried to break it up, he could have been bitten.  This was truly a case of unleashed dog charging out of his yard to get a leashed dog on the sidewalk.
 
Now, another thought.  many times while we were out walking dogs, we have met people with dogs on leashes that came up to us--with their dogs...to talk and pet our goldens.    This is especailly true of children with small dogs.
 
This is a hard decision, but i do think I would opt for the muzzle and carry a can of spray to try to scare other dogs off.
 
 

"Charging, snarling pit bull".

Ugh.[:'(]

Yeah, I lost my Halt! Dog repellent spray. It fell off my bag somewhere and I haven't been able to locate it. But I have Direct Stop and regular pepper spray, even though I won't use regular pepper spray on a dog.

Also, I'll carry a stick.

I always carry a break stick around. I even had to use it on a horse once, years ago, that attacked my dog.

Yep, the owner didn't know how the dog got out of the back yard.  He was in his driveway working on his car and the dog tore past him right for Buck.  As i said Hubby said he didn't even think the dog looked at him, just at Buck.  The owner rushed and grabbed his collar and still the dog was snarling and lunging at Buck. The owner just apologized all over himself for his dog getting out.  We actually stopped walking our dogs as we live on a horse shoe shaped street and on the indise of the U at the end the houses are back yard to back yard and that dog lived across the street between the two ends of our street and there is no way to get off our street that if the dog was loose again he would not see us--no side streets.  I think they have since moved..at least we haven't seen him nor the cars that use to be there, and we are walking dogs again.

A horse attacked your dog.  My gosh, that would scare the pee out of me to have a horse  attack one of my dogs.  I remember my dad telling me about one of the plow horses his dad had when my dad was young.  The horse was named Slim and he didn't like dogs and would chase after any of the dogs that got within his sight.   Slim nad to be shot when a small creek bank crumbled and he fell into the very shallow creek, but his leg was broken.