Need some serious, parenting advice (Bullymom)

 Honestly, I think being smacked might have contributed to her behaviour.  I do NOT want to start a smacking debate, but I *will* say even if you think it has its place in this world, it CERTAINLY doesn't have a place with every child.  And I think this is one kid it doesn't have a place with - at all.  It's been shown and widely documented that kids do as they are treated. 

Not sure if anyone else has broached this one, but who has contact with Madison apart from yourself?  Do you think any of them might have been abusive towards her - maybe took a belt to her just as rare bear suggested?!  There is a link between kids suffering abuse (and I am using that word broadly) and abusing animals.

I think language is important.  The words we use reflect our thoughts, but I think they also SHAPE our thoughts and therefore our actions.  So, I think you should drop words like "vengeful" and "mean" from your vocabulary when you talk about, or even THINK about Madison.  They are emotive, loaded terms and they don't inspire compassion.  I think thinking of her like that, and maybe even inadvertently treating her like she IS like that, is making her continue.... does that make any sense?  Surely it's damaging your relationship with her?  It must be very hard to have empathy for her, or LIKE her, even, when you think of her as a "beast".

 Thanks guys!  I am just so confused by her right now.  The only people that Madison stays with is my dad and stepmom.  Dad has not hit her with a belt and he hasn't even spanked her in so long.  Sandy (stepmom) thinks Madison is the best thing since sliced bread.  I have been having issues with her behavior for quite some time now.  Dh is out of town a lot more since her took the promotion with his job so it's just me and Maddy here.  She isn't in school yet.  She can be such a loving little girl and I love her with all of my heart.  She does watch t.v. during the day when it's too cold or nasty to go outside but the television stays on cartoons ALL day.  If I watch a movie with violence in it, I do so after Madison is asleep.  I don't know why she is so angry.  She gets worse when I don't let her have her way.  One night, I told her that she couldn't watch a movie and she told me that she was going to kill me.  I am going to see about talking to my Pastor and see what he recommends.

 I would definitely go to the pastor, and also talk to any school psychologists you might have available. No matter what the issue is, it sounds like you really do need help, and you need help soon!

I have very little experience with children, but it sounds like there could be something biological going on with mood swings and sudden episodes of aggressive behavior. Maybe hormone levels out of whack, or neurotransmitters unbalanced, or who knows what. If it is biological, that's another reason that going to a professional and getting some referrals could be very helpful. I would guess your pediatrician would have some recommendations for family therapists, if you wanted to ask. Additionally, talking her problems over with your pediatrician might help - he might be able to test for some things that might be causing or at least aggravating her behavior.

Cita

he might be able to test for some things that might be causing or at least aggravating her behavior.

Does ADHA cause anger issues in children?  Dh has that and I am thinking that Madison might have it too.  I don't want her to be put on medication unless there is no other alternative. 

Bullymom

Does ADHA cause anger issues in children?

I think it can. My childhood friend had a little brother with ADHD and I can remember him chasing us with a baseball bat. We locked ourselves in the bathroom and were quite frightened.

I think you've gotten some great advice but honestly this isn't something that folks on a forum are going to be able to diagnose or treat. This is serious and Madison needs to see a Dr. to rule out any medical problems.

I used to watch a 6 year old with emotionally issues.  I was told he was ADHD.  At the time, he was still seeing Dr's and trying new meds so I'm not sure if that diagnosis stuck.  He was totally night and day.  His "night" did have a lot of anger, I remember wondering why such a little boy with such a nice life would be so angry, however what was intriguing to me was that he mainly directed it at himself.  I don't remember him ever trying to hit me or his siblings, but he would pound his fist against the TV it he was losing a video game, or burst out into tears and throw a fit like a toddler, or his face would turn red and swell with anger, he would X out all the pages in his book with a crayon, stuff like that.  Other times he could be normal and sweet.  Still other times he seemed almost sedate and just seemed so sad.  One time while I was there I picked up a TIME mag and there was an article about bi-polar disorder in kids.  DH is going into special ed so I try to stay "up" on these sorts of things.  As it turned out, when I went through the checklist, this kid fit more than half of them.  Eventually he was taken off Ritalin and put on an antidepressant.  That was towards the end of my time watching them (then they went back to school during the day) so I'm not sure what ever became of it.  Each hour with him was a totally different mood.

There is no problem with talking to your pastor. 

This is not a situation where advice on a discussion board will provide an answer. 

This situation (based on the past history of behavior and reactions that have been reported in postings) is going to require an outside pair of eyes and neutral players to help sort it all out. 

There is no reason to consider diagnosis at this time.  There is not adequate data to rule in or rule out any specific disorder.

Please contact either your local health department, your local school district or a local medical professional.  Do not accept a "gee there is nothing wrong here" response.  If you get one, go to another agency.  The tone of your posts suggests that you truly love your child but you do not feel you have adequate skills to meet her needs in all situations.  I assume frustration when the posts report difficulty dealing with her when her way has been denied.  In many, many cases the interactions between family members maintains or even increases the behavior of concern. 

 Take the step, find some help.  One possibility is there is nothing really "wrong" just slightly out of sync.  If there is a medical problem, you are half way to solving it once you know what it is. 

The physical aggression that has been reported is a red flag and will require systematic, guided help to address.  Bullying behaviors will isolate a child and make their school career miserable.  These behaviors are the ones that make it more important to seek professional assistance.

 This will need to be addressed and before school is so much better.  Parents always want what is best for their children.  Some times that means you have to step WAY outside your comfort zone.  Sometimes you have to take a major risk and ask for help because what you are facing is beyond your skills at the present time.

Deal with it now, you really dont want to consider what teen years will be like if you dont.

Just to reinforce what others have said....leave the belt to hold up the pants.  Sheesh.  In 2009??  The one thing I learned in therapy with my son is that a smack on the butt even, teaches little ones that it's ok to hit someone who is smaller and weaker than they are.  Not a lesson you want to teach.  I came out of an abusive marriage and the biggest reason I found the stones to leave was for my children.  I was determined that the cycle would end with them and not continue.

Chuffy

It's been shown and widely documented that kids do as they are treated. 

I do agree with you with one caveat. Although it is true that most kids that are violent and/or aggressive are victims of the same. However not all of them. I think it is common for toddlers (pre-school) to be aggressive and at times even violent. I raised my 3 boys without any physical punishments at all, yet all of 3, in there toddler stage would quite often strike out (mostly at me) by slapping or hitting. Other times it was directed at their sibling. They would also throw tihings, Sometimes at people (mostly me, sigh) or deliberately destroy something. Maybe my kids were just 'rotters', but from what I've seen it is quite common. I always felt it was mostly out of frustration with a lack of communication skills and the inability to control feelings.

Now trying to drown someone is more than concerning. Do you get the sense that Madison is sorry after you talk to her when she does these mean things? Does she understand it is wrong?

If she is acting out of frustration there might be some issue she cannot resolve. Maybe it's her Dad being away so much. She may be super bored. She's may be ready for school. Have you ever had her in any pre-schools. My kids all went to a pre-school the year prior to kindergarten. It was like 1 hr. of crafts, snack time, 1 hour of free play. But there were teachers there that taught them to cut and glue. They learned songs etc. Most of all it was structured and it was confidence building. It might be something Madson would benefit from 1 or 2 days a week.

Whatever is going on, do stay on top of it. Talk to people who know Madison. Ask them their opinion.  

JackieG

Well, here you have three people, none Mom's, offering you some advice! 

That's a little rude. It's not like we've never been around kids and we gave the same advice as those with kids.

I don't think it was meant to be rude.  I kind of chuckled myself when I saw all the responses were from NON moms!  It's often really easy for a person who hasn't walked in those shoes to "see" all the right ways, and often the ARE the right ways, but sometimes they aren't possible to apply.  Does that make sense?

This might seem off topic, but there is a point.  When Farrah Fawcett was in the movie "The Burning Bed" there was such outrage and such a sense of disbelief that THAT was her only option.  Logically, yep, absolutely right.  BUT, unless you've been in that situation, of course it doesn't seem possible to you.  For me, I could totally relate.

So sometimes, experience really IS the best teacher.  However, I'm sure that the OP was grateful or ALL the responses.

 I don't think she was being rude, she was just stating the facts.

Luvntzus

JackieG

Well, here you have three people, none Mom's, offering you some advice! 

That's a little rude. It's not like we've never been around kids and we gave the same advice as those with kids.

Oops! Sorry, I guess I was being too sensitive.

:) no worries.  It's my fault for not making it clear that I was kidding and had no kiddos either. lol