Tough Decision

 Steph, I would never fault you for probably the worst decision a person can make. I hope Akita rescue comes through.

What a tough choice you must make! Sending hugs and prayers. Paws crossed  the rescue will be able to offer some options.

Yikes, no advice just wanted to say i'm really sorry you're going through this. Keep us updated and let us know if there's any way we can help. 

TheDogHouseBCMPD:

Hello! I'm new here, but I came across your post and felt like maybe and outside opinion may be worth reading???

#1 Why did the dogs get in a fight?

#2 Have these dogs got in a fight before?

#3 If so, why were they allowed to not be supervised?

#4 For all you know, Blaze could have actually started the fight. I know many many little innocent looking dogs that really know how to push a big powerful dog's buttons. (all it takes is direct eye contact and one little look)

The first step to take when something like this happens is to step up and take ownership for it. And I'm very proud of you for admitting to that, because most people don't and never will.

It is not easy to have multiple dogs. It is a lifestyle, dedication, and 100% around the clock work. Most people don't learn this until they encounter a situation just like this. I think you should stick to the pack you have right now that works and focus on them.

In my opinion this dog does not deserve to be put down. This dog deserves a family who can provide undivided one on one attention.

Please rehome Mystic... she deserves it. I wish I knew you and/or lived closer because I just want to run over there right now and help!!

Overall I just want to say, I hope things get resolved and I hope you feel better!

JD_Shelties

Please rehome Mystic... she deserves it.

JD_Shelties

In my opinion this dog does not deserve to be put down. This dog deserves a family who can provide undivided one on one attention.

Please rehome Mystic... she deserves it.

It's not that Mystic deserves to be put down, or rehomed. It's about what is SAFEST for Mystic - and for the general public. The damage done to Blaze is more than just a 'fight' she went in with intent to do serious damage. Akitas are tough breeds, they are NOT for everyone. There is no right or wrong in the senario, sadly. But I don't think it's anyones place to judge Steph for the choices she is making/has made. I've been around dogs like Mystic - and they are scary. That split second change is terrifying - and there is not much you can do to control it. Some dogs will go through doors to get to another dog....these are not things to be treaded on lightly.

Again, Steph - I support you 100% in whatever route you take. You're doing what is best for everyone, as hard as it may seem.

JD_Shelties

#1 Why did the dogs get in a fight?

#2 Have these dogs got in a fight before?

#3 If so, why were they allowed to not be supervised?

#4 For all you know, Blaze could have actually started the fight. I know many many little innocent looking dogs that really know how to push a big powerful dog's buttons. (all it takes is direct eye contact and one little look)

You haven't READ nor are you listening to the situation. 

The dogs were in the care of her ex (who has "joint custody" of the dogs anyway) and he IS a brainless wonder.  He KNEW the dogs should be kept separate and he KNEW they should not *for ANY reason* be left alone together.

this was a horrible accident -- but Steph is the only responsible one in the relationship.

No one knows what the scenario really was - she ONLY has her ex's "word" (there's a REASON he's her "ex" - if you get my point!!!!) that he was only inside "a minute" -- no one KNOWS exactly what happened.

This is a dog whose dog-aggression has been successfully ***managed*** for many years.  This isn't a one-time "oh dear what do I do" thing.  This is a dog who has been dog-aggressive but managed for a long time. This is a HUGE but horrible accident that has now given this dog a "fight to kill" history. 

There is SO much to consider here -- please, you can NOT casually read something and just be *horrified* -- when a dog has a history of dog aggression that has been thus far successfully managed, but then one incident happens that is so vicious she has to take steps.

This dog is one who has a HUGE need for exercise.  She's an akita.  But because she's so aggressive and because this aggression comes on fast and hard, any home she was re-homed in would need to be beyond just "an only dog" situation.

The violence of this attack was enormous and that merits this decision.  This isn't just a minor dog fight.  Even in a major fight dogs rarely fight to the death, and then usually only if it's some mutual hatred.  Blaze is very submissive to Mystic and always has been. 

The HUGE **enormous** risk here is that it's not just the potential of dog/dog aggression or even the death of another dog.  In an attack of this proportion if a human or, most frighteningly, a **child** had endeavored to intervene, there could have been loss of human life. 

Any time you re-home a dog you have to be so incredibly careful that the adopter has 100% understanding of the dog's problem and that this adopter can guarantee fully that the dog will never be put in that situation again.

This dog can't be kept that secure and still get the sort of exercise she needs to be mentally happy.

What if:

What if someone's grandchildren came to visit NEXT DOOR?  What if some child walking their dog down the street decided to go 'see the pretty doggie' in the back yard?  This dog could have zero freedom -- it couldn't be allowed to run anywhere loose EVER because of the threat of aggression. 

There could be countless scenarios -- and they just could *not* be allowed to happen.  I can't even think of a situation where a dog like this could be given adequate exercise and yet have sufficient 100% supervision and CONTROL to prevent any incidental, unplanned contact.

JD_Shelties

I think you should stick to the pack you have right now that works and focus on them.

I'm not sure what you mean by this?

It's really not possible for her to give Mystic the type of situation she needs and ensure any sort of peaceful co-existence BECAUSE there will be times she must entrust their care to others.  And Mystic is just too much the "wildcard" to do that successfully.

I would ask you please, to go back and really **read** what Steph has said.  This isn't a casual decision.  This isn't an "this isn't convenient" situation.  This truly is NOT about "fairness".  This is honestly about risk. 

Please don't come down on Steph with a lot of guilt here -- this has to be THE most difficult decision any dog lover can be forced to make.  And because of the violence of this attack -- Blaze's injuries were massive -- it makes re-homing such a big risk.  Akita rescue may prove helpful -- if anyone knows of a way to do this successfully they will.  And Steph is pursuing that. 

But let's please be constructive here -- please don't offer a casual observation without checking the facts.  The answer to every one of your questions WAS covered in what she posted. 

My heart aches for all of you.... I truly hope that you are able to come to a decision that is best for *all* of you. It's so hard to predict the future with an unpredictable dog..... that's what makes it so hard. You are in my thoughts and prayers, whatever decision you make.

Tears and (((hugs)))

Im sorry you have to go through this...  I will tell you we had a dog come into our office in the arms of a histerical lady with it in a towel COVERED in blood because her other dog attacked it.  It too, went home a few days later with drains... this dog had a black eye, something I had never seen and didnt really know was possible but there it was, a big black eye, among MANY other wounds.  About a month and a half or so later, she was back and it was worse.  There were two drains in his neck this time and two in one hip.  It barley made it this time and she did, after that, get rid of the attacking dog. 

This little guy was lucky to be alive after all of that, and I felt so bad for how scary and painful it all must have been for him.  I made sure to pet him waaaay extra... and I know she felt bad for leaving him vulnerable to have it happen again as well.  Its a hard thing but think of the possibility of a next time, becasue thats a very real possibility.  I know you pretty much have decided and I think we all support you through whatever you think is right.

Its not easy but you do what you need to do... Im sorry, I know your going through a lot.

 Oh you poor thing!!  I can't even imagine what a horrible decision you're stuck with.  I did a little looking and here are a few Akita rescue groups that appear to be in your area.  Good luck sweetie. 

http://akitarescue.rescuegroups.org/

http://www.manta.com/coms2/dnbcompany_2006x

http://www.rescuecanines.com/marylandrescues.html

http://www.akitaclub.org/rescue/resgroups.html

Hope you can find some help for your Mystic.  I'll say a prayer and rub DeeDee's belly for luck.

Callie, first I want to applaud you. I could not have worded that nearly as well as you have.

And I want to add, about the human factor. My aunt's JRT was accidentally attacked by her pit bull. The pit bull is not human aggressive and not really dog aggressive (it was truly a freak accident). When someone went in the pen to get the JRT, the pit bull turned and hit her in the thigh with an open mouth. The person was bruised. The damage could have been so much worse if the pit bull was aggressive towards either.

A dog of Mystic's size could do serious damage to a person who got in the way, even if she didn't mean to. I think Steph is struggling with making the best decision possible, obviously knowing her own dog, the average owner, and the situation.

Steph, my heart goes out to you. This is a tough decision to make under ANY circumstances, but even moreso when you are a responsible, caring person.

Akitas are a tough breed and are not for novices, so Mystic is going to be harder to rehome than many other dogs. I hope for your sake, that a home CAN be found that will take care of her until she dies of old age.

That being said, sometimes the right thing to do is also the hardest. Mystic may have to be put down.   If that is the case, do so with a clear conscience. You are doing what's best for everyone--EVEN Mystic.

I, for one, would never judge you harshly for doing this. You have worked very, very hard to make this work. Sometimes, our best efforts aren't enough and we, sadly, must let go.

JD_Shelties

#1 Why did the dogs get in a fight?

I don't know, I wasn't there, I was about an hour away and my ex was taking care of them for the evening.  Unfortunately when it started no one was in the yard with them.

JD_Shelties

#2 Have these dogs got in a fight before?

They have had scuffles before that I have called Mystic off before anything really happened.  This is why I keep them separated when I am not with them.  The ex knew that, but apparently forgot, or most likely, didn't believe it was as serious as I've said.

JD_Shelties

#3 If so, why were they allowed to not be supervised?

Again, I wasn't there.  He should have known better, we kept them separate when we lived together.  He has a tendency to think I over react when it comes to the dogs and it had been a long while since anything had happened between them, so I can only assume he thought it would be ok. 

JD_Shelties

#4 For all you know, Blaze could have actually started the fight. I know many many little innocent looking dogs that really know how to push a big powerful dog's buttons. (all it takes is direct eye contact and one little look)

And 'innocent looking' has nothing to do w/ it.  Being perfectly honest, Mystic looks incredibly innocent.  In most situations she looks like the sweetest dog you could imagine.  Which is exactly why I am constantly getting people who don't believe me when I tell them they need to keep their dogs away from her.  And many of my friends know her and they are still surprised when I tell them, b/c they never see that side.  They only see that precious face and a dog who just wants to love all over them.  When she snaps, she becomes a completely different animal.

JD_Shelties

It is not easy to have multiple dogs. It is a lifestyle, dedication, and 100% around the clock work. Most people don't learn this until they encounter a situation just like this. I think you should stick to the pack you have right now that works and focus on them.

You're right its not, but having a multi-dog pack is not something I'm new at.  Until September I had a pack of 5 dogs, Mystic was the newest addition having been there for 2 years.  The other 4 had been together for almost 5.   My pack narrowed to 3 when I left my husband and he took 2 of them with him.  Again, you don't know me, so I understand that you don't know this information. 

ETA:  I'm not sure what you meant by sticking w/ my current pack that works.  Obviously, they don't work right now or this wouldn't have happened.  I was trying to make it work, thought it was actually, but I was wrong.  I have no intention of adding a dog after Mystic, it will just be Co-Co and Blaze at that point. 

JD_Shelties

In my opinion this dog does not deserve to be put down. This dog deserves a family who can provide undivided one on one attention.

Please rehome Mystic... she deserves it. I wish I knew you and/or lived closer because I just want to run over there right now and help!!

Please believe that Mystic's death is the absolute last thing that I want.  I love her dearly and this whole thing is just absolutely devastating.  If people who are experienced with the breed and dogs in that breed who have issues, think that she has a chance, I will be ecstatic.  In this case, rehoming isn't just finding someone who will care for her.  If that was the case, I know a few places she could go.  She needs to be in a home that 1) has no other pets (I have cats that she has been ok w/ but I don't want to push it at this point) 2) Can handle such a powerful dog 3) Has experience dealing w/ dog agression 4) Knows how to deal w/ separation anxiety and 5) Is willing to deal w/ the fact that on top of all the behavioral stuff, she has hip dysplasia.  It's mild, but it is a consideration.

She is a special needs dog at this point, I don't know that there is a home out there for her.  I thought I could do it, and I tried the best I could.  It wasn't good enough and Blaze got hurt, bad.  I never want that to happen again.  And I never want her new owners (should she get rehomed) to go through that either, even if they are a one dog home, she could go after someone elses pet, or a stray.  The guilt would be unimaginable.  If she gets rehomed, the new owners have to be 100% aware of what she is capable of, I got in over my head w/ her and I want to know (to the best I am able) that new owners are not making my same mistake.

Callie (and everyone else), thanks for your response, you were completely spot on, probably explaining better than I did.

Thanks again to all of you for your continued support.  Coming on here, reading these messages really makes me feel...I don't want to say better, b/c that's not right....they're soothing, I guess is the best way to describe it.

I was playing w/ Mystic last night and she was just acting like a happy crazy puppy, it was the cutest thing.  As much as I loved it, it also broke my heart knowing that I won't be with her much longer.

What Callie said.

And while I realize you are new here, and don't know the OP, gosh, this is one heck of a decision to have to make.

If for some reason I couldn't keep Sheba, she would have to be put down.  No one, but myself, DH and one of my two sons can deal with her.  She is fearful and reactive and there is no way she would be safe and happy in another home.  And this is AFTER  working with a behavorialist.  Making that decision would KILL me, but I work with GSD rescue and I know she can't be rehabbed and rehomed.

I live with six german shepherds.  FIVE of them have their CGC's, and one is a therapy dog, working with seniors.  But the sixth is my failure.  And, it's not truly MY failure, nor is it Stephs that Mystic can't live happily in a pack.

A dog with this serious agression might or might not be able to be rehomed through a certified Akita rescue.  And if she can't, well, there really is no other choice.

All of these questions where things that would have gone through my head "if I was in your shoes" (type ordeal).

TheDogHouseBCMPD

JD_Shelties

#1 Why did the dogs get in a fight?

 

I don't know, I wasn't there, I was about an hour away and my ex was taking care of them for the evening.  Unfortunately when it started no one was in the yard with them.

Well at least you know it's not your fault, it's 100% your ex's.

TheDogHouseBCMPD

JD_Shelties

#2 Have these dogs got in a fight before?

They have had scuffles before that I have called Mystic off before anything really happened.  This is why I keep them separated when I am not with them.  The ex knew that, but apparently forgot, or most likely, didn't believe it was as serious as I've said.

Shame shame on him... I hope you gave him an ear full and I really hope he is paying for the Vet bill 

TheDogHouseBCMPD

 

JD_Shelties

#3 If so, why were they allowed to not be supervised?

 

Again, I wasn't there.  He should have known better, we kept them separate when we lived together.  He has a tendency to think I over react when it comes to the dogs and it had been a long while since anything had happened between them, so I can only assume he thought it would be ok.

WELL he learned his lesson... hopefully you don't feel like any of this was directly your fault. 

TheDogHouseBCMPD

  

JD_Shelties

#4 For all you know, Blaze could have actually started the fight. I know many many little innocent looking dogs that really know how to push a big powerful dog's buttons. (all it takes is direct eye contact and one little look)

This one really rubs me the wrong way.  I know you don't know my dogs, so you don't know, but you are way off base here.  Blaze is 9 years old, I've had her a large portion of my life.  She did not start this, and yes, I DO know this.  I know exactly what she does when they are in the yard together.  She does her business and then goes up on the porch until I let her in.  In general, I do realize that any dog, regardless of size can start a fight. 

And 'innocent looking' has nothing to do w/ it.  Being perfectly honest, Mystic looks incredibly innocent.  In most situations she looks like the sweetest dog you could imagine.  Which is exactly why I am constantly getting people who don't believe me when I tell them they need to keep their dogs away from her.  And many of my friends know her and they are still surprised when I tell them, b/c they never see that side.  They only see that precious face and a dog who just wants to love all over them.  When she snaps, she becomes a completely different animal.

I've met many many many many... many... dogs like this. It's a tough situation and I can understand and I'm sorry that you have to be in this type of situation right now. *hugs*

But saying it could have been Blaze was, once again, just another question I'd be asking myself type ordeal... (just a non-biased outside opinion)

TheDogHouseBCMPD

   

JD_Shelties

It is not easy to have multiple dogs. It is a lifestyle, dedication, and 100% around the clock work. Most people don't learn this until they encounter a situation just like this. I think you should stick to the pack you have right now that works and focus on them.

You're right its not, but having a multi-dog pack is not something I'm new at.  Until September I had a pack of 5 dogs, Mystic was the newest addition having been there for 2 years.  The other 4 had been together for almost 5.   My pack narrowed to 3 when I left my husband and he took 2 of them with him.  Again, you don't know me, so I understand that you don't know this information.

Yep, like I said I'm new and I don't know you, just 100% non-biased outside opinion based off of the first post. Same type of thing any person whom doesn't know you would have ask right off the bat. So I'm glad you understood that.

The seperation must be really hard on the dogs. That is very confusing to be a pack for 5 years then all of a sudden be seperated not being able to understand "divorce" etc etc... *big hugs* to you and the doggies. Tough transition for everyone.

Not knowing you, the next thing I would ask is if Mystic's aggression surfaced after the divorce & seperation? (I mean there is a million things I could as, wonder about... but that would take forever to discuss them all via computer)

Hopefully the pack that you do own & live with you can get settled back down and things will be resolved and you'll be able to focus just on them without Mystic around.

TheDogHouseBCMPD

    

JD_Shelties

In my opinion this dog does not deserve to be put down. This dog deserves a family who can provide undivided one on one attention.

Please rehome Mystic... she deserves it. I wish I knew you and/or lived closer because I just want to run over there right now and help!!

 

Please believe that Mystic's death is the absolute last thing that I want.  I love her dearly and this whole thing is just absolutely devastating.  If people who are experienced with the breed and dogs in that breed who have issues, think that she has a chance, I will be ecstatic.  In this case, rehoming isn't just finding someone who will care for her.  If that was the case, I know a few places she could go.  She needs to be in a home that 1) has no other pets (I have cats that she has been ok w/ but I don't want to push it at this point) 2) Can handle such a powerful dog 3) Has experience dealing w/ dog agression 4) Knows how to deal w/ separation anxiety and 5) Is willing to deal w/ the fact that on top of all the behavioral stuff, she has hip dysplasia.  It's mild, but it is a consideration.

She is a special needs dog at this point, I don't know that there is a home out there for her.  I thought I could do it, and I tried the best I could.  It wasn't good enough and Blaze got hurt, bad.  I never want that to happen again.  And I never want her new owners (should she get rehomed) to go through that either, even if they are a one dog home, she could go after someone elses pet, or a stray.  The guilt would be unimaginable.  If she gets rehomed, the new owners have to be 100% aware of what she is capable of, I got in over my head w/ her and I want to know (to the best I am able) that new owners are not making my same mistake.

Well as you know that is just my opinion. (And as we all know, forums would be pretty gosh darn boring if we all felt the same way! haha)

I do know of many success stories similar to your situation. So I do hope you keep strong, stay positive, think of what is best for the dog & hummanity then make the best decision you can. Exhaust all opportunities (which I know you will, based off your post and reponse you sound like a very analytical & compassionate person)

BEST OF LUCK! Lots of good thoughs & prayers for your family.

- JD & the whole entire Shetland crew