Can dogs see their own reflection in a mirror?

I don't think dogs register "Hey! Thats me!" but they can certinly see a dog - they just don't know its them.

My Grandpa has a 5y/o neutered Maltese, ever sense the day they brought him home he has ***hated*** the full-lenght door/mirrors in they're house. He growls, he barks, he scratchs with his back legs, all of it. He is not a dog-friendly animal for the most part too.

So, either he thinks its another dog in his territory, bowing up at him.....or he is showing himself off in the mirror.

I'd place my bet on the first one.........but I could be wrong.

JackieG

Dogs don't have the concept of self recognition.  They see the image but don't relate it to themselves and so most ignore the image as it is meaningless to them. 

OH YEAH some do.  I beg to differ in a big way.  Some of them just don't 'get it'.  SOME of them do.  It's a learned skill to be sure, but my Prissy (and this was like 30 years ago) could sit on a chair and watch ME come out of the kitchen behind her (well WELL behind her) and she could turn and actually jump just in front of me and spatially KNOW which way to go (in reverse because of the reflection) to get to me.  Not only did she know SHE was looking at herself, but she knew and understood what the reflection showed her -- she could get her bearings from it and **Judge distance** to within inches.  In fact, I had her literally leap into my arms guided by a reflection.  She was IN THE AIR before she turned around.

Billy "gets" the difference between window and mirror in a BIG way and again ... he's smart enough to take cues from the image. 

Not all dogs do this -- absolutely not.  I've had some dogs that would 'bark' at a reflection or ignore it until their dying days. 

Much of it, I think, has to do with how much exposure they have TO reflection, and whether they are taught to use it as a tool to get their bearing spatially or if they are teased with it. 

Tink, also, is going to 'get it'.  When we first picked her up in Austin there was a mirror that was a floor to ceiling mirror in the motel room we were in.  I spent quite a bit of time that evening *showing* her what a mirror was, and that it was HER and who was on which side of her and that she could get to that treat FASTER by knowing where it was behind her in the mirror.

It's not inate.  It's definitely a learned thing, and it's definitely something that CAN be taught. 

Miss Callie, nothing that applies to regular dogs applies to your dogs, I thought that went without saying. LOL Seriously, I stand behing what I said but I am not so closed minded that I won't consider that there are exceptions to everything.

Buddy being elderly(ish) shows no interest in the reflection (wuteva).  Heidi and Bruder, OTOH, crack me up when they see themselves in the mirror.  They start this low growl and soft, quiet bark (kind of like a conversation as opposed to fear).  I will typically take the opportunity to place myself next to them so they can see themselves AND me.  They know what I look like, right?  I'll go a step further and say their name and tap the mirror.  Do they get it?  I dunno, maybe.  But its funny to watch them look at themselves, them look at me in the reflection and turn to look at the real me.  It seems they are thinking....WTH.  LOL

 For children there is a simple test to see if they realize the reflection is themselves or just a baby in the mirror.  You put a dot of lipstick on their nose and wait until they are not concerned with it anymore(lipstick feels stick and can annoy most people if placed on the nose but you get used to it).  You then place the child in front of the mirror and if they reach for their own nose you know they have put two and two together.  If they reach for the baby in the mirror, not so much. 

I wonder if there is a similar test for dogs?

 Kirby completely ignores the mirror, which slightly surprised me.  I wouldn't expect him to understand it was him, or any deep thought to it, but he seemed the type that could startle himself or end up posturing and barking on occassion like Cita's Rascal did.  He also shows no recognition to TV accept for the occasional sound that blares out.

Now my praying mantises on the other hand, love watching TV and will sit for hours watching it, though that is probably no surprise with how visually based they are.  One of my favorite things is to set a mantis up infront of a computer screen and watch them try to catch and devour the mouse pointer.

I think the part about "reaching for the baby in the mirror" is the dog-worthy part because most dogs WILL react -- IF they 'see' they will react to that "other" dog. 

But once the come to a point where they can utilize the mirror as a tool -- to communicate with whatever is behind them to 'react' to it -- that's the thing.

Now ... when Billy starts checking his groom in the mirror and asks me to call Marilyn because it's getting a tad too long -- THEN I'm just gonna give up and scream because I will have crossed over to the "deep end".  Simply because they don't look in the mirror for the vain reasons WE do.  They simply see it as a tool.  Like scent -- it's information to be processed and used.  Lift the head to sniff -- ahhh she's THAT way.  OR ... using the info in the mirror to spatially align something.

THAT is the one that kills me -- because of the 3D 'distance' thing.  To judge distance/depth in a mirror is quite a trick.

JackieG

nothing that applies to regular dogs applies to your dogs,

Sure it does Jackie (not said argumentatively) -- cos ALL my dogs are rescues so they all come with baggage and some YEARS of it.

Billy was probably 5 when we got him.  Complete with emotional scarring.  And the health issues he's been thru have truly made big changes because he's WAY more aware of his surroundings and "thinking things thru". 

Kee is a sweet senior citizen but Golly Gee ... she's dumb as a box of rocks.  I love her dearly but you can tell it's not just "Old Timer's Disease" when she walks into a room and suddenly looks down and around and has that "Now ... what DID I come in here for?" look on her face.  She's ... serious. 

Luna's always gonna worry because while she's looking in the mirror that Serial Killer is likely outside and ready to do his deed if she's not being watchful.

*sigh* yeah -- they are SOO normal.  It's just ME that is ABnormal (labelling of brains in "Young Frankenstein" -- it's a Marty Feldman moment)

My childhood dog, Pepper, used to see herself in the mirror and then rush around the door to get to the other dog.  It took her awhile to realize that there was no other dog there.  But it was funny for awhile!  So yeah, they see a dog there...just not sure they think it's their own reflection or another dog.

calliecritturs

JackieG

nothing that applies to regular dogs applies to your dogs,

*sigh* Tink ran outa faireeee dust last night, Jackie -- I was wrong ... it's NOT training ... it's that darned pixie dust all over the place -- THAT's my problem!!! (today it's funny ... last night when I was desperate for something to stick in a 9 month old pug's teething mouth  .... *sigh*

Is there a fairee/pixie dust concession on here that I'm missing??  Or do I just need to buy stock in Nylabones?? 

I don't think dogs register "Hey! Thats me!" but they can certinly see a dog - they just don't know its them.

actually, maybe the dogs that ignore the mirror image DO realize it is a reflection of themselves. Why would a dog care what he looked like? whereas most dogs would be quite upset to have a strange dog suddenly appear next to them.

mudpuppy

I don't think dogs register "Hey! Thats me!" but they can certinly see a dog - they just don't know its them.

actually, maybe the dogs that ignore the mirror image DO realize it is a reflection of themselves. Why would a dog care what he looked like? whereas most dogs would be quite upset to have a strange dog suddenly appear next to them.

dunno... i'd think they'd at least invesigate it a bit, before they go to the ignoring part?

 My understanding is that elephants have also passed the dot on the head in a mirror test as have dolphins.  I have not looked at the definations recently, but I think that scientists consider passing this test shows an animal has a sense of self. 

I think Callie and Brookcove's experiences are very intriguing.  It would be great to get an ethologist to observe dogs like these.  If one dog can pass these tests, then all dogs have the potential.  Remember that humans also have to learn to recoginize themselves in the mirror, it is not an innate ability.

There was a study done with Beagles I think.  It was a cognitive study and had to do with aging.  It's been a long time since I read it so I don't remember the details but I do think they used a mirror test at some point. 

When Luke was < 1 year he used to freak out at the full length closet mirrors at my parent's house.  His mohawk stood straight up and he would bark aggressively for minutes on end if I let him.  Eventually he figured out that it wasn't another dog trying to attack him and now he ignores mirrors.

I have one on the floor in my office so that I can see what the dogs are doing in front of my desk.  Kaiser will occasionally lay in front of it and stare into it -- sometimes he paws at it as though he's trying to interact with it.  Sometimes I catch him staring into the full length mirror in my bedroom and he'll make eye contact with me through it.  I think he understands the concept now.