What do I say?

Good luck, Candace.  You'll find the right words. Kale KNOWS you love him.

These days, many kids are not living with their birth parents. One of the sadest things I see is parents that badmouth the other child's parent in front of them. I would echo other people's suggestions that you emphasize that you and his father had a relationship and he moved on before he ever knew you were pregnant. I think kids often are frantic to fix things--If only I did XXX, then things would be perfect again. They assume everything is their fault. He needs to know that this is not his fault.

I really liked Callie likening it to even though spinach is healthy, etc., some people won't even try it. Some of those people that finally try it see that it really does taste good. It sounds like there is a slim possibility that the dad will catch a clue and decide to grow up and develop a relationship with his son.  He needs to understand that that is his father's choice, not yours, and not his.

Your son is lucky to have such a caring and loving mother.

Agnes

Kiddo,  we have been there and done that. Short version: Both with my youngest two , who's father split while I was pregnant with the youngest and now with two of my grandchildren. Tris is 9 and one of the most decent souls you could ever pray to meet. He is Bi racial on top of everything.  His baby sister who also will hopefully never know her birth father is a blond with blue eyes.  Keep it simple, keep it breif but not rushed. Answer Kale's questions without volunteering more than he is possibly ready to handle. And make sure the choices made stay the property of the adults involved.  At not time is it about who and what Kale is. But who and what the adults are and were......

Long Version: This is what we have done, Tris was told that his real father was someone his mom had met and thought she was in love with. That after he was on the way it was obvious he was not who she had thought he was and they separated.  They talked for a long time but it was decided Tristan would be far better off without this person messing up his life. That he was not as nice as everyone had thought.  We talked about how some people are good people but not good parents.  This has come up many many times so please trust me when I say keep it simple.  They will remember any and everything.  And in years to come a simple remark like  "Your father was not ready to be a dad" becomes the hope that some day he may be ready....  It is important that you remove Kale from the emotional part of the break up and subsequent disappointment.  So try very hard to avoid saying" I took you to meet him when you were little but her was still not interested, or ready etc"   Kids can twist that to mean there was just something lacking in them.  Let the deficiency remain where it belongs on the father's shoulder's. He is not Father material , he was a good ( fill in the occupation) and fun at the party or while we dated but he was not the kind of man who grows up and loves kids.

Ceattle's father is a drug addict and career bum. While very good looking and a hard worker in small spurts he was worthless, we could never understand why my daughter found him so wonderful.  Later we found he had made his entrance to her life by being interested in her son, praising him and stressing how he needed a father to grow up..... then he convinced my idiot off spring that the only way she would ever understand his drug addiction was if she could appreciate the high,  try it once you can't get addicted from one try...  Yes you can. and she was.  She now deals with life knowing she has made a mess of it That thanks to her relationship and the trust placed in it she is a felon and will most likely never have full custody of her children again. We are their guardians.   When the bum got out of prison this year I made it plain to that side of the family that the baby, now 4 , is not an amusement and will never be a part of their home and lives.  They will have to fight my husband and I to the last penny before they will get their hands on yet another kid to ruin. ( Their family has possibly 4 out of 50 members who have not been in jail or prison)  .

Sometimes we have to suck it up and know they will hurt because of choices made before they were born.  It is still necessary for us to take that harder road , they may seem to be able to handle more than we give and they may seem to long for something that makes no sense to us but trust me on this, if you keep it simple,  factual and keep them as far out of the events as you can. It is never their fault that a grown up is not what or who we had thought and hoped . They are not less, they are not insignificant, and one day that grown up may realize and kick themselves in the head when they understand what they missed out on in life.

Kale is lucky to have a mom who is not treating his curiosity as a chance to play an emotional game.  He is lucky you care enough to try to have a plan and that you love him so much he is and always will be the best part of your world. Email anytime , we understand and you can talk "trash" ooops I mean vent  about the father all you want to us, we have been there and know what you mean.

Big Hugs you have a long evening ahead for you.

Bonita of Bwana

I'm sending my good thoughts and support for you and Kale.

Candace, you have gotten some pretty great advice previous to me! I just wish you the best of luck with your conversation with Kale. Sending good vibes for kind words and patience as you and Kale take this journey. **Big hugs to you***

~Kristi

 So this kid never ceases to amaze me.  First off, his main reason for asking about his dad was to find out if he had anything in common with him.  Understandable.  But he wanted to know if his dad likes Pokemon too.  He seemed kind of dissappointed when I told him that his dad was kind of too old for Pokemon.  Pokemon wasn't big until Ron was way past drinking age...ah well.  So I told him about Ron's musical talent.  Kale is kind of like that too.  He has really good rythym anyway, and a healthy interest in learning to play an assortment of instruments. 

I tried to test the waters about how much he wanted to know about our(Ron and I's) relationship, and why he wasn't with us anymore.  But maybe he's just not ready for that yet.  He seemed happy with what I told him.  A little confused about the fact that he lives here in the same town as us, but that too is understandable.  He says he would like to meet him, someday.  But he didn't seem overly eager for it to be soon.  Thats fine with me.

I'm glad that the ice is broken though.  And I'm glad it went as well as it did.  When it was over, and he had the info that he seemed to want he asked to go play his game in his room.  I let him go.  I think he needed some time to himself.  Normally he would just play in the livingroom with me.  He did stop at the hallway and turned around to come back for a hug and kiss goodnight.  Thats normal, but maybe it was my imagination, I think it was a little stronger than it normally is.  

I want to thank each and every one of you that offered advice and support.  This is something that has always weighed very heavily on me.  My uncle didn't find out about his real dad until he was a teen and he's a mess.  In and out of prison, drug problems, alcoholism, etc.  But then, he was very misled as a boy.  He thought he had the same father as my dad and my other uncle, and my grandmother knew that.  She lied to him.  I think that hurt more than this.  I hope it did.  I think Kale will be ok.  He's got a much more stable life than my uncle did.  Plus I've got you guys to come to for advice.

I'm glad that your talk went well. 

One of the hardest things in my life has been not to run down the sperm donor who helped to create my sons.  THEY remember the beatings, the fights, his kidnapping them and dang, it's hard to bite your tongue and say "he did what he thought was best" or "he never learned to control his anger".  But, he was in and out of their lives at will so much that it made for an entirely different situation.

Kale will ask more questions as the years go by and please don't be afraid you'll screw up.  You did GREAT this time and you will the next time because you love  your son and want what's best for him.

You did a wonderful job , well done or since it is a doggie group...Gooooooood Girl!!  As adults we tend to overthink everything. We always seem to be ready to answer simple questions with far more information than needed .  I know it was really hard to bite your tongue and not blurt everything out,  the good and negative the emotional issues and anger that the X is such a smuck he hasn't a clue how amazing Kale is......

It is amazing how many of us share a portion of this "club" . I think most of us try to go with stregnth, we share and point out the positives , Grandpa and you both love cards,  ( so Kale likes Pokemon and G'pa loves poker...) .  In our home we believe it does take a village. So we became one, we all step in and bond in different ways. 

Congrats Mom on putting Kale first. 

Bonita of Bwana

it seems you did a good job! i just wanted to chime in, even if it's a bit late!

trust me on one thing: if you're honest with him, you wont screw him up! REALLY! the important thing in the long run, is not getting the story about his dad right, it's being a good mom to him, which you obviously are!

my parents seperated (i dont say divorved, cause that took years to go through...) when i was about 10-11... it was a really tough time, not only for me, but even more so for my mom! she was completely honest with me! no sugar coating or anything. i dont think she had the strength at the time, even if she wanted to. did it bother me to see my dad who seemed like such a cool person (although he was never much involved) from such a different light? yes, but if she had lied to me, i would have seen it! i was 10, but i wasnt stupid! and AT THE TIME i think being angry and blaming my dad helped us. it was a coping mechanism. i stayed home from school sporadically in those few months. my mom talked to my teachers, they all knew. i never got any grief for it, but instead spent all day in bed with my mom and my sister. being sad together. just being together. my mom also told my sister everything, even though she was aware, she might not understand most of it. my sister was about 3-4 at the time. we both turned out fine. neither of us have father - issues. well other than issues with our father, such as him paying for college or his wife (i'd call her names, but i'll get into trouble for that here, lol). we both still have contact with him. in my case voluntarily. i always thought i would stay away from him, as soon as he was done paying for college, but i still do enjoy his company. i could never trust him, like i do my mom, but he's my dad so i go visit him from time to time, we spend some time together, i bring the dogs...

i'm babbling, but what i am trying to say here is, kid's are remarkably resistant. just be honest with him. he will see you as the person to trust, because he will sense your honesty, and him having you as someone to go to and someone to count on THAT is really what is important for him!!!

i really think that BECAUSE of the things i went through with my family (and i dont consider my dad part of the family, simply because he wasnt there) i have learned to deal with pain in life. cause pain is inevitable. but having someone there for you is what get's you through it!

kale will be just fine!!

I was looking through the thread again and had a different insight. Mention was made of his paternal grandparents and how they can't enjoy a close relationship with Kale and vice versa. Then I wondered how they were and how the felt having a son that fails to have the biolgical sense of honor that even a dog has. But it wasn't necessarily their fault. And would it help if this Ron guy got his butt whipped. Hard. And several times, until he started doing his job. That's the optimism of my upbringing. The butt whippings will continue until you shape up, or you will be dead. And would that do any good? Him being grown, it may not matter getting his butt kicked. He may be stubborn enough that one can't physically coerce him into showing at least half the basic integrity of a cardinal (bird.) So, then I wondered why can't Kale know his grandparents, unless they think their son is just peachy keen. In which case, I'll kick all their butts but it's going to cost extra.

My mother may have been strict at times and I was raised with coporal punishment but I never once doubted that she loved me. Ever. And it was enough. I'm more of man being from a "broken" home than most who had both parents. In fact, our home wasn't broken, it just didn't have a lot of dead weight.

ron2

In fact, our home wasn't broken, it just didn't have a lot of dead weight.

haha, cool, i will remember that phrase! i like it!

janetmichel3009

ron2

In fact, our home wasn't broken, it just didn't have a lot of dead weight.

haha, cool, i will remember that phrase! i like it!

Once in a while, I suprise myself, too. But after I wrote it, it made a lot of sense. And anyone is free to use that phrase. Let's declare it public domain. But I think it sounds good because it's true. Harsh, but true. We managed to make it through and no, I don't have any ill will towards either of my parents. For one thing it would be moot, since they are both dead. And, after I certain point, I no longer needed to explain myself by means of my parents, i.e., I am responsible for myself. The past is the past, good or bad. When I talk of emotional scars, it's not always a bad thing. I think the psyche does things similar to our body. When injured, the body closes the wound with a scar. This is designed to prevent further injury and infection. Re-opening that scar isn't always helpful. It's a survival mechanism, unless the behavior affected by the scar leads to more destructive behavior. I think one could go through therapy and work through some pain and still come out with a scar. But it would be a healthier scar. Let's say that one parent was so toxic that you just couldn't deal with them. So, you sever contact, which leaves an emotional scar. That scar is still healthier than staying in the toxic situation. I didn't mean to drift towards this direction but do be mindful that we will suffer trauma but it's how we survive that counts.

Mel Gibson said it quite succinctly when interviewed about his production of "Man Without a Face."  "We're all damaged goods."

 Ron, Ron lost most of his friends for quite a while after doing what he did.  Most of them were also my friends and very openly took my side, if there were sides to be taken.  One friend in particular, who had Ron stand up as best man in his wedding, has completely severed any ties with him whatsoever.  When you grow up in a place as small as this, that's about as bad of a beating as you can get. 

It saddens me about his parents.  Not only that they have missed out on 9 years with Kale, but how they will feel about their only son once they do find out.  Yes they do think he's peachy...Which I suspect is why he is afraid to tell them, and the longer he waits, the harder it gets.  They'll find out eventually, through him or someone else and I'm sure they will be crushed.  Imagine having a grandchild kept from you for nearly a decade simply because the values you tried to instill in your child got mangled.

I don't hate Ron.  I prefer to save hatred for those that truly deserve it.  A friend of mine is in a slightly similar situation with a big twist.  Her daughter has cancer, and is not expected to live past her tween years.  Taylor is a year older than Kale.  Her dad is not in the picture either, but he pays child support.  Taylor has written a letter to her dad every week for 5 years.  Nothing.  Once he called and asked Erin if her new husband could adopt Taylor so he could quit paying child support.  Erin told him no, that it was his resposibility, etc.  His reply was, "Ah well, worth a shot, it won't be for much longer anyway right?"  That man deserves to be hated, and its something I tend to compare other things to to see the caliber of evil that they are.   Ron in comparison is just an idiot.

BTW, Ron, that name no longer has a bad connotation for me since I have gotten to know you here.  The name Ron used to make me grind my teeth.  Not any more though.  Thanks for that.

huskymom

BTW, Ron, that name no longer has a bad connotation for me since I have gotten to know you here.  The name Ron used to make me grind my teeth.  Not any more though.  Thanks for that.

And thank you. And I am sorry you have had to go through these things, which would normally be only painful if on your own but it is magnified so much by feeling for the loss of what your son or his grandparents may miss out on.

 For the most part, its just an old ache that I barely even notice anymore.  It was only aggrevated by Kale's questioning.  I've lived with it so long that it almost seems like someone else's life now.  I have a feeling that at some point, things will get a whole lot worse before they totally dissappear though.  Maybe I'm wrong, I hope I am, and everything will just all of a sudden be great.  Ron will come around and be a great dad to a *** son that he has to all of a sudden introduce to his parents, and they will love him(who am I kidding, they'll love him, of that I have no doubt) and everyone will be happy.  He'll never let Kale down the way he always let me down and it'll all be good.  Maybe.