Bear's visit to the TCVM vet!!

Calinisima, Bear is doing well.  He seems almost "normal".  He started playing with his toys a little on Wednesday and again last night.  I don't think all the squeaking and crowing in the world could bother me now - it's a relief he wants to play again!

Callie, believe me, I will ask about scheduling.  I'm so impressed with the doctor and the results that I will work it out.

Janet, thanks for the reminder about "Idiopathic".  The regular vet diagnosed it as you said, idiopathic epilepsy, but the tcvm vet said that she rarely sees true seizure dogs - that something *usually* underlies the problem.  Fortunately I was studying medical secretary stuff before my divorce, so I do have some understanding of medical terminology (and plenty of books to look things up in). 

Again, I appreciate all the good wishes and thoughts.  Bear is so important to me, I can't explain it, but you guys/gals do *get* it - thank goodness for other dog nuts! 

Tina, I'm late seeing your updates on Bear and his visit to the acupuncturist.  I'm so glad the treatment went well and that you were so impressed with the doctor.  I think one of the most frustrating and difficult things about life with pets is trying to find a truly good vet that listens to you, is well informed on all aspects of medicine, open to non-traditional or Eastern methods, realizes that diet plays a role and that drugs aren't always the only answer, etc.  Finding a great doctor is a frustration for us humans, too, not just for our pets.  Sounds like you found a good one, and that you're well on your way to managing Bear's condition in a way that will work well for both of you.

As for napping or relaxing during acupuncture treatments, I can vouch for that from a human AND a dog perspective.  Tonka relaxed during his treatments, although he never fell asleep.  However, after the treatment, he'd be very sleepy and nap soundly the rest of that day.  I've had treatments many times for neck and shoulder issues, and I've fallen asleep more than once (especially when she put a heat lamp over the targeted areas!).  As Callie said, I had to do my treatments after work because there was no way I'd have the energy to focus on much of anything!  Most importantly, the treatments improved my mobility and relieved my pain quite quickly and for a very long period of time. 

Hugs to Bear -- I'm glad he's behaving more like himself!!

janet_rose

By the way, if someone says that Bear has "idiopathic epilepsy", sarcastically say "Well, that is helpful". 

"Idiopathic" means "unknown cause", so "idiopathic epilepsy" just means seizures for which there is no known cause.  The term is not a diagnosis of what is wrong.  It is a way of avoiding saying "We have failed to identify the problem."

Absolutely -- and so often if you LOOK HARD you can identify things that trigger -- and coming to identify the aura so Bear can tell YOU when he's about to have a seizure is a mega deal.

And sometimes you have to try different herbs for optimum effectiveness - I thot kee's were SO much better until we tried that last one and then WOW -- my standards were too low!!

janet_rose

By the way, if someone says that Bear has "idiopathic epilepsy", sarcastically say "Well, that is helpful". 

"Idiopathic" means "unknown cause", so "idiopathic epilepsy" just means seizures for which there is no known cause.  The term is not a diagnosis of what is wrong.  It is a way of avoiding saying "We have failed to identify the problem."

Janet, this surprised me a bit, as I don't usually associate you with sarcasm:-))  At any rate, I don't know if I would want to tell someone to be sarcastic about that, as the term "ideopathic" just means "of unknown cause" and is not *necessarily* meant to confuse anyone or avoid anything.  IMO, the next thing to say would be, "So, how can we identify a cause?"  That puts the onus on the vet to explain how, or say that they don't know how to do that.  If they suggest further investigatory methods, you can consider them.  If not, you can make your appointments with TCVM or holistic docs or choose something else.  But, to argue that the use of descriptive medical terminology is some kind of avoidance behavior is sometimes a stretch, depending on the vet, and to be sarcastic can ruin your relationship with that person when it might not be constructive to do so.  Having had a few occasions when my vet was stumped, but later came to a solid and helpful conclusion about the issue at hand, I'm cautious about doubting her until there's a solid reason to do so.  I have, though, on occasion, rejected her traditional methods in favor of something else, usually with holistic veterinary advice, and done well.  But, that doesn't mean that I would just stop listening...and some things, despite our efforts to understand them, still are "ideopathic". 

Anne, I think both Janet and I were reacting to this *particular* incident more than was apparent.  I don't think *in this case* much effort was expended to help her figure it out, but just handing her a drug. 

But you're absolutely right -- we do have to be careful how badly we may tromp all over a professional's feelings inadvertently. 

There comes a point in all of this where some vets/doctors (and this happens with human stuff) "medical opinion" becomes "It's idiopathic -- and trying to find a CAUSE may not lead to the ONLY cause so just medicate and be done with it" whereas other vets/doctors will say "Let's see if we can control it with something less severe and perhaps elminate it by elminating something environmental, etc."

I really can see it from Janet's, Anne's, and Callie's angles.  And I know how carefully one must tread with the professionals I might need later on.  After the whole cluster of seizures and the obvious sides effects of the medication, I carefully weighed all the things I knew and that Callie and I emailed about, then made my decision.  After going to the tcvm vet and having her say she thought Bear might be "low thyroid" and that the bloodwork covered everything BUT thyroid levels, I knew I did the right thing in at least getting a second opinion.  There are 3 vets working in the office we usually go to, and to simplify things I could have asked one of the others for an opinion, but I really thought Bear needed *fresh eyes* and was willing to try the tcvm doctor.  Maybe he's not low thyroid, but it was at least a place to start.

Sarcasm certainly has its place, but I already have a not-so-favorable feeling about the the new doctor in the office where I've been going for 10 years and don't need to feel the working relationship is any more strained.   I want my animals to receive the best care I can give them and that's what matters most to me.  I don't want to tick the doc off and then later mysteriously lose Bear during a visit.

My ex-husband used to say that it wasn't "what" you said to someone, it's "how" you said it.  He could tell someone to go to helI and make the person look forward to getting there.   I personally have to work on this since I don't always have tact. 

Since last week, I made up the liver cleansing diet and Bear loves it!  I've added gelatin as a supplement.  I also made another dinner recipe the doc gave me plus some turkey muffins (for treats) and so far, so good.  Bear's energy level is back up and he's pretty much returned to being himself.  No further seizures yet, but by the calendar, he'd be due next week.  We'll see.

janet_rose

By the way, if someone says that Bear has "idiopathic epilepsy", sarcastically say "Well, that is helpful". 

spiritdogs

Janet, this surprised me a bit, as I don't usually associate you with sarcasm:-)) 

I agree that you need to maintain a relationship with any professional that you might need in the future.  A surprised "You are not going to explain what "idiopathic" means?"  would probably be better than sarcasm.

The term "idiopathic" is one of my pet peeves, because, unless the vet/doctor explains, many people leave believing that tests have determined a "diagnosis".  The term can be used as a convenient way to lie by omission.  Patients should be fully aware of whether a treatment is directed toward a "cause" or just toward a "symptom".

Some vets/doctors just forget that their clients/patients don't have their vocabulary.  Some get very busy and forget to explain fully.  Challenging those doctors on their unexplained use of the word "idiopathic" helps them learn to communicate better.

However, some just find it more convenient to keep the client/patient in the dark.  The latter is a professional I would avoid.