Pet Store Puppy

jennie_c_d

AKC papers mean NOTHING. Champion parents even throw pet quality puppies, and sometimes unhealthy puppies. All champions are NOT healthy dogs.

But it does legitimize it to the general public who doesn't know any better.  Most people think papers mean a dog is well bred, pure bred and worth tons of $$.

DPU

 It was mentioned that increase competition to meet buyer demand would help. 

Unforgiveable to my mind.  I have considered this aspect too, even considered becoming a breeder myself one day for that very purpose.  I have soul searched long and hard and come to teh conclusion tyhat the sort of people who should be breeding pups should be those who breed rarely and carefully.  How can you do so AND meet demand?  Bit of a contradiction.

DPU

It was also mentioned that it would help by boycotting manufacturers that supply merchandise such as food, toys, and equipment. 

A good idea for some people, but wouldn't some people end up with nowhere to shop? 

And where do you stop?  For example, "Pedigree Chum" is made by Mars.  Do you go as far as boycotting Mars products (including all their choclate etc) so you don't line Pedigree pockets because Pedigree are miller-enablers?  Where would it end?  And realistically, how many dog lovers would follow your example?  Do not forget that there is strnegth in numbers.  That is why education is so necessary.

jennie_c_d

AKC papers mean NOTHING. Champion parents even throw pet quality puppies, and sometimes unhealthy puppies. All champions are NOT healthy dogs.

Seems to me then there is a BIG void in the dog professional world and works to the puppymiller advantage.  Definitely helps them keep in business.  Why do you think that is?  To me it seems like a pretty simple undertaking for a breeder to create a piece of paper associated with a dog that truly represents the dog's background and upbringing. 

Well, to get AKC papers, the dog must be purebred. A lot of these puppy mill dogs are -apoos or -doodles. That would mean they can't be registered. I don't know how hard it is to get AKC full registration on an unregistered dog. You need full registration to be able to register the puppies. Any kind of AKC anything costs money. That is part of the reason why people don't do it.

Papers are nothing BUT "proof" that the dog is purebred. It doesn't even truly prove the sire OR dam of the litter, because DNA testing isn't done.

 Here in the UK, there is at least one requirement - that both parents must be registered.

Chuffy

 Here in the UK, there is at least one requirement - that both parents must be registered.

It seem to me a very simple thing to add to the "registered", maybe in small increments and over time.  E.g. Must be registered and parents have to be the same breed, or must be registered and parents have to have a health check.  Don't you agree?

 I do agree.  I think it's pretty disgusting that the Kennel Club doesn't demand more from the breeders, when they claim to be all about animal welfare.  But that does not change my stance on whether or not to buy pet shop puppies, which is the topic of the thread

Edit - yeah and both parents must be the same breed.  Sorry, I thought that went without saying.

Chuffy

I think it's pretty disgusting that the Kennel Club doesn't demand more from the breeders, when they claim to be all about animal welfare.

They do have an Accredited Breeder Scheme, which assigns a "mark" to breeders who join it, proving to potential buyers that they are regularly inspected and that they do all health testing recommended for their breed.  Joining is voluntary, though, and I am with you on the "they should demand it" front.

To speak to the topic...I'd no more buy a pet from a pet shop or a puppy mill than I would patronise any business or establishment that I knew was a front for the mafia (or any other gang/criminal organisation).  I believe puppy millers harm society, I believe that what they do is immoral and criminal. 

Chuffy

the sort of people who should be breeding pups should be those who breed rarely and carefully.  How can you do so AND meet demand? 

I do not agree that repsonsible breeders should rarely breed, because that IS a contradiction.  We are demanding the public buy from responsible breeders instead of pet stores but we are asking the resposible breeders not to breed.  Makes no sense to me at all.  Those who breed for sound conformation, temperment and health should by all means be breeding more than a litter per year.  The argument for the breeding for purebred dogs is to improve the breed, but if  the puppy mills are pumping out millions more badly bred dogs than than the good breeders are for good dogs, how does that improve the breed?  People buy from pet stores because the puppies are AVAILABLE.  Adopting from a shelter is a wonderful thing to do but it is not for everyone, and if we want people to buy responsibly then that option needs to be available to them.

 You will never convince the public to stop buying from pet stores without a viable alternative available.

DPU

Odd that you only limit your boycott to that particular store when your real purpose for going into the store was to buy a particular brand of food.  Shouldn't you also be boycotting the food manufacturer for supplying their products to the pet shop.  It seems to me those in bed with the pet shop owner help make the pet shop store successful and contribute to producing these puppies. 

Wouldn't that be cutting your nose to spite your face?? Especially seeing as how they carry... Canidae, Solid Gold, Natural Balance, Evo, Innova, Eagle Pack, Nature's Variety (thats the raw prepackaged right?) Merrick, Royal Canin, Wellness, Chicken Soup, California Natural and a few other foods I can't remember. That's just the dog food list...

jenns

Adopting from a shelter is a wonderful thing to do but it is not for everyone, and if we want people to buy responsibly then that option needs to be available to them.

You will never convince the public to stop buying from pet stores without a viable alternative available.

I disagree, most shelters have **tons** of puppies, of all breds, whats the difference from picking out a puppy from a store - that may or may not be purebred, reg, ect. - and picking out a puppy from a shelter, which may be purebred or not. Plus, all the puppies at the shelter need home, more then the ones at the pet store or breeders kennels. *Someone* will forget the shelter puppies and inturn buy from the pet store. Most breeders are willing to keep the puppies they bred until they find a proper home. Personaly, as much as *I* want a nice purebred, registered pup, I know that shelter puppies need a home, and they need it more then a breeders pup's. Thats just me and my bleeding heart, but thats how I feel. My next dog, will be from CCAC(Cumberland County Animal Control) due to the fact that they *still* put dogs and cats to sleep, and if I can save one animal from an unjust death, then I'll feel like I've made some sort of difference.

misstrouble

I disagree, most shelters have **tons** of puppies, of all breds,

Not here in the UK.  When my local shelter has puppies in, they have to schedule a date when the puppies will be made available, then everyone who wants one has to apply before that date, get home checked, and THEN they have to turn up at the shelter on that day and line up and hope that they make it there early enough that there will be a puppy for them.  It's like getting tickets to a concert, my trainer there told me the last time they had purebred puppies they actually had people camping out overnight for them. 

But then, you can't buy puppies from pet stores here anyway, so that's not an option for those who miss out.  Now just to get rid of the puppy millers...

3girls

Wouldn't that be cutting your nose to spite your face?? Especially seeing as how they carry... Canidae, Solid Gold, Natural Balance, Evo, Innova, Eagle Pack, Nature's Variety (thats the raw prepackaged right?) Merrick, Royal Canin, Wellness, Chicken Soup, California Natural and a few other foods I can't remember. That's just the dog food list...

Wow!  I did not know all those dog food manufacturers support pet shops and puppymillers.  How does one reconcile their purchases with that? 

Benedict

Not here in the UK.  When my local shelter has puppies in, they have to schedule a date when the puppies will be made available, then everyone who wants one has to apply before that date, get home checked, and THEN they have to turn up at the shelter on that day and line up and hope that they make it there early enough that there will be a puppy for them.  It's like getting tickets to a concert, my trainer there told me the last time they had purebred puppies they actually had people camping out overnight for them. 

Wow....if it was like that here, maybe people would actually care. I bet that they are 20 puppies at CCAC. It's so sad. The new shelter(CCAC) was built last year, they have 3 seperate kennels, 1 for puppies with 20 or so cages, 1 for small dogs with 20 or so cages, and 1 for large dogs with 40 or so cages. They have another area with the same layout for holding strays and dogs that are given up by they're owners.

misstrouble

I disagree, most shelters have **tons** of puppies, of all breds, whats the difference from picking out a puppy from a store - that may or may not be purebred, reg, ect. - and picking out a puppy from a shelter, which may be purebred or not. Plus, all the puppies at the shelter need home, more then the ones at the pet store or breeders kennels. *Someone* will forget the shelter puppies and inturn buy from the pet store. Most breeders are willing to keep the puppies they bred until they find a proper home. Personaly, as much as *I* want a nice purebred, registered pup, I know that shelter puppies need a home, and they need it more then a breeders pup's. Thats just me and my bleeding heart, but thats how I feel. My next dog, will be from CCAC(Cumberland County Animal Control) due to the fact that they *still* put dogs and cats to sleep, and if I can save one animal from an unjust death, then I'll feel like I've made some sort of difference.

 As discussed several times on this forum, that really depends on where you live.  If you are looking for a small breed puppy in my area, expect to be on a shelter or rescue waiting list for at least a year.  Also, most shelter workers will tell you that puppies are the first to get adopted no matter how many they have. 

Additionally, shelter pups tend to be on the larger size range, and not everyone, myself included, has the lifestyle to accomodate a larger breed. Many people want or need a more accurate prediction of the size and temperment that the puppy will grow up to have and that is not possible with shelter puppies of unknown origin.  Not everyone who acquires a dog from a breeder is some sort of shallow elitist demanding a purebred registred pup.  Too many people get dogs that are not the right fit for them and to insist that people to adopt puppies of unknown temperment, size or energy level is irresposible and potentially unfair to the puppies themselves.  If your lifestyle is able to accomodate the unknown, then by all means the more noble deed is to adopt from a shelter.  Hopefully I will find myself in that situation one day.