A Hypothetical Question (Bevolasvegas)

 Is his medical condition fatal? If not I dont think I would. Is there a way to manage his pain that is working? Is there a chance that the drug trail could kill him?

I mean if I had a medical condition that there was no treatment for but it wasnt fatal I dont think I would put myself through a drug trail. As long as there was some kind of pain management and it's working I wouldnt do the drug trail.

 Drug trials can, depending on the drug/treatment, be really harsh. My uncle's wife was recently in a trial of some sort of chemotherapy - either a different kind of chemo, or a different dosage, or something. The bad news was she was horribly, horribly sick from it, couldn't keep any food down for weeks, and had to be eventually pulled out of the trial because it was affecting her so strongly. The good news was that it was a very difficult type of cancer and her initial prognosis was not good, but after she recovered from the chemo the cancer seems to be in remission and she is doing well.

So definitely an analysis of risks/benefits is in order... what would happen without the treatment? If the answer is "very bad news," I would seriously consider the trial. If the answer is more along the lines of, "it would be unfortunate, but manageable" I personally would have to consider that very carefully against the risks.

The other thing to consider is cost of treatment - usually with such trials you get all related medical expenses paid for, IME. So lots and lots of checkups, all the bloodwork you need, etc. They need tons of data from you, so they will foot all the bills, and you will reap the benefits of being very well-monitored. After all, they have a vested interest in seeing you healthy. If cost of care might be a problem, it might be another check in the "pro" column for a drug trial.

Are you considering this for Bevo?

As someone who has participated in a number of trials for assorted things myself, yes I would - especially if, as you said, there is no available treatment.  Just about every medication available to us (or our animals) owes its availability to a trial.  You're never under any obligation to continue in a trial for any reason if things don't seem to be going well.

Joyce

It would depend, but I'd definitely consider it. I'd have to weigh the upside and downside and go from there. Is there something you're thinking of for Bevo?

We still don't have a diagnosis.

I will try to answer the questions with what our vets *think* might be going on.

The condition is not fatal.  It is a sensory nerve condition that would, eventually, cause a decline in his quality of life.  If they are correct, then within the next 3-6 months, his other hind leg will be affected as well.  In time, while he will still be able to stand, he will likely prefer sitting or laying instead of his normal active self.  It would be a relatively slow progression though. 

Yes, we can manage his pain with tramadol, and there are days when he is not painful at all.

I don't have information on the drug trial.  It was just something that his internist mentioned.

Essentially, I was just looking for a variety of opinions.

Depending on the side effects of the other medicine...

I most likely would. From what i know of Bevo he is a very active dog and would probably be miserable if he couldn't run around. If the side effects of the trial medication aren't too serious i would definitely try it.

 wow Amanda I am so very sorry to hear this - I mean really sorry

as for your original question, I suppose I would want to know if the med was a potential cure or another pain killer - if it were a pain killer likely no I would not participate; if it were a potential cure/fix/delay progression then yes I would participate.

I am not averse to medical trials but do think you need to research the class of drug and see what precautions are attached to drugs in that category - usually you can see how it works and what impact it will have on the rest of the body.

Bevo, Bugsy sends you his very best healing vibes and lots of love - hang in there big guy

I'm really sorry to hear this too and I agree that Bevo would not be a happy dog if he could no longer run and play. Don't you wish we could as them what they'd want?  If I felt confident in the diagnosis and the side affects of the drug trial weren't awful, I'd probably go for it.

*usually* with a drug trial you have to give them full rein -- meaning, you couldn't do acupuncture or other things for this or the Wobbler's.  That is always the thing that keeps ME from taking part in any sort of trial.  I don't do well with pharmaceuticals anyway ... but I'd want to know what other stuff would have to be done.

Is this something related TO the Wobbler's? 

I would have to say, if this was Willow and the Tramadol was controlling her pain well then probably not.  See, the only thing that would make me take that back would be if this drug had less side effects and was less harmful than the Tramadol.  But, you probably wouldn't know that at this point. 

They *think* that it may be Dancing Doberman Disease, so no, there is no connection to the Wobblers.  We are going to be referred in to a neurologist for a neurological exam, and an EMG.  Our surgeon knows of one other dobie that has this, so he is going to try to put me in contact with this dog's owner, so that I can talk with her.

The radiologist saw muscle degeneration in his left leg.  He recommended blood testing to try to rule in/out myositis.  We have blood at Texas A&M running a cbc, chem panel, & urinalysis, as well as a toxoplasmosis screen, neospora screen, & an antinuclear antibody titer.  Now, after consulting with an internal medicine specialist, the radiologist thinks that we are dealing with Dancing Dobe Disease.

Everything that I have read, seems to indicate that these dogs do not show signs of pain, which has not been the case for Bev.  All of the other symptoms sound exactly like what we have been dealing with though.

I know that he will not be happy living a non-active lifestyle, although from what I have read, he will still be able to run, & play, but he will prefer laying as opposed to standing during times of inactivity.

If he is diagnosed with DDD, then I will have to seriously consider the drug trial.  This is a disease that has only been seen in dobes, so I almost feel that, if he qualifies for the trial, that I owe it to our breed to participate. 

Callie, his Wobblers is under control.  We did opt for gold bead implants.  He has 12 beads in his neck & I will say that it has been one of the best decisions that I have made for him.  Since their placement, his balance has returned to normal, & you can very rarely tell that he has an issue at all.  He has only had two acupuncture sessions, & they were both for pain relief purposes.

ETA:  The trial drug is not a pain reliever.  It is a drug that has been very successful treating similar conditions in humans. 

 I'm really sorry this is happening.  I hope you can find some answers soon and that they are satisfactory ones for you and for Bevos quality of life.

Many times drug trials are not for a new new drug, but for a slightly different application of an established drug.  A lot of times there's already anecdotal evidence of the drug's effectiveness and side effects for that condition "off label" so the trial is intended simply to nail down the FDA requirements to label the drug for that condition.

I see that this is likely the case for this drug, so my answer would be yes.  The reasons are that most likely it's already being used off label (and you can get this information before you agree) and that what he may have, has limited options currently for treatment.

I have a friend who had a BC who had Wobbler's and she had tremendous results from the gold bead implant treatment.  Her dog went from bad symptoms to being able to play flyball (limited to to stress on head and shoulders) and agility again.

BEVOLASVEGAS

This is a disease that has only been seen in dobes, so I almost feel that, if he qualifies for the trial, that I owe it to our breed to participate. 

This would be my view as well, as a breeder and fancier of a particular breed...this kind of thing really matters (potentially many others). I wish you luck with whatever you decide to do, and only the best possible outcome.

BEVOLASVEGAS

I'm curious, and would like to hear opinions.

If your dog were diagnosed with a medical condition that has no treatment, would you consider entering him or her in a drug trial?  Why or why not?

Thanks in advance.

A few years ago, I probably would have said no. 

However, when I read this, I immediately thought of Jack.  While the degeneration caused by the dysplasia can be slowed with management, etc, there is no cure for it, and they have done just about all they can do surgically.  We are essentially doing what we can to keep the degeneration as slow as possible and keep his pain down, hopefully without using drugs.

Looking at it from this prospective, yes--I would.  It is very hard to know that there is only so much you can do to "fix" the condition, and I hate to see his uncomfortable days.  He takes it in stride but it just makes me sad.

I also think that if Bevo is an active dog this would be a quality of life decision.  We are lucky in that Jack is not insanely active anyway--a mile long on-leash hike or a swim, and a romp in the yard with Sally are enough for him.  From what you've told us though, Bevo seems way more active than that.......