Dog walking off leash

We used to live out in the sticks and we would go for long walks with Conrad not on leash. There were no leash laws and most of the property we were on was ours (well, our landlords, we were renting). While his "come directly to us and sit down in front of us" typed recall was never stellar, he is a velcro dog and pretty much followed along with us closely. And if any other dogs were around, it would have been becuase they were trespassing. If we had Marlowe at the time, I don't think he would have been allowed the same freedom because of his breed and temperament.

My major beef is walking off-leash in multi-use public areas where there are leash-laws in effect. If you live way out and there's no one for miles and you're on private property (yours or others' with whom you have an understanding) and your dog has a pretty good recall and you understand the risks, go for it.

As I say, the large park we have here that has the off-leash problem....it's a gorgeous PUBLIC park, yet there are many people I've talked to who will not go there because the off-leash dog problem is so out of control. And that is simply not fair. All of our taxes pay for that park yet it is being monopolized by a few people who think they are above the law.

I'm sorry if my long lead question offended anyone. It wasn't my intent. This is just such a passionate subject for me. Off leash dogs can mean a WORLD OF TROUBLE for my dog and me. And I have a low tolerance for off leash dogs in my area and their owners.

Just last night, we went on a peaceful (or so we would expect it to be) family bike ride around our neighborhood. What did we run into?? Oh, the off leash shih-tzu somethingsomething mix dog that my neighbor is trying to "train off leash". It, of course,tried to charge at us. My boyfriend had to yell, at the top of his lungs, "GET BACK NOW!!!!" so loudly that people in their houses probably heard him. The dog stopped dead in its tracks, and Ella, who had looked at the dog with extreme interest, stopped looking at it and turned her head forward.
I have told this lady that it is unsafe for her dog to be off leash. I've told her that my dog is not friendly to off leash dogs who run up to her.

JMHO and clearly not a popular one, but I believe that we as humans are already encroaching enough on lands that did belong to the wild animals. It's not enough to take their homes and confine them to ever smaller areas (hmmmm, much like we did with the Native American), NOW we get to turn our dogs loose on them? (hmmm, again, much like we did to the Native American)

ORIGINAL: glenmar
 
First, my dog has never chased Indians! []   I'm not sure how unpopular your "encroaching" sentiment is but I pretty much agree with it.  I do not think it applies in this case since the park's size (in my area) has been stable for for over 100 years.  My house is about 50 years old.  Prey animals are programmed to flee.  If not, in areas where there are predators, they do not survive. 
 
Rock Creek Park has coyotes.  [linkhttp://www.nps.gov/rocr/naturescience/coyotefaq.htm]www.nps.gov/rocr/naturescience/coyotefaq.htm[/link]  During daylight hours, when I walk my dog, I sincerely believe that my single 50 lb German Shepherd with a tinkling collar, accompanied by a human whose footsteps can be heard, does not traumatize a deer with a few second chase with no element of surprise.  I consider it an important part of my dog's exercise regimen.  []  The deer are in greater danger crossing the roads in and around the park.  The fact that there are virtually no predators to check their numbers make the deer more of a danger to me as a driver than my dog is to them. 
 

Have you ever SEEN a really PO'd buck? They can kill a dog readily, regardless of it's size.

ORIGINAL: glenmar

True.  And a deer on my hood can kill me readily.  Life is full of risks.  As dog owners, parents, drivers, farmers et cetera we all assess risk and make decisions based on our comfort level.  Knowing my dog's somewhat cautious nature I think she would know when the tables have turned and keep herself out of harms way better than the hunter on "America's Funniest Home Videos". []

I try not only to respect Mother Earth and Nature, but to tread lightly.  Same goes for my dogs. And while it is NOT against the law here for them to chase small game, it very much IS against the law to allow them to run deer.

ORIGINAL: glenmar
 
I do not allow my dog to chase deer when we are anywhere near a road.  It is easy to hear even light traffic within about 1/2 mile of the road.  It's only when we are deep in the woods that I allow deer chases.  My dog does not chase for that long or far.  Squirrels are a different story.  Much shorter chase so I allow it as long as we aren't too close to the road and no people or other dogs are around.  The owls in the park are more of a danger to squirrells than my dog. 
 
I did call her off a squirrel once that wasn't acting right.  She responded immediately.

ORIGINAL: houndlove

We used to live out in the sticks and we would go for long walks with Conrad not on leash. There were no leash laws and most of the property we were on was ours (well, our landlords, we were renting). While his "come directly to us and sit down in front of us" typed recall was never stellar, he is a velcro dog and pretty much followed along with us closely. And if any other dogs were around, it would have been becuase they were trespassing. If we had Marlowe at the time, I don't think he would have been allowed the same freedom because of his breed and temperament.

My major beef is walking off-leash in multi-use public areas where there are leash-laws in effect. If you live way out and there's no one for miles and you're on private property (yours or others' with whom you have an understanding) and your dog has a pretty good recall and you understand the risks, go for it.

As I say, the large park we have here that has the off-leash problem....it's a gorgeous PUBLIC park, yet there are many people I've talked to who will not go there because the off-leash dog problem is so out of control. And that is simply not fair. All of our taxes pay for that park yet it is being monopolized by a few people who think they are above the law.

This is the way I view the problem. In most of the counties that I am surrounded by, there are  leash laws in effect that are known by everyone that can read.  The moment you see someone walking along with their dog off-leash, you immediately know that you are dealing with someone that has decided that the law should apply to everyone else but  them. They are the same type of people that park in handicaped parking spaces in malls or restaurants because they are too lazy to walk a few hundred feet, or drive the wrong way on a Interstate emergency lane, when there is an accident ahead, and wind up blocking emergency vehicles from getting to the crash, or answer cellphone calls in a theater. These are the " Oh, that law doesn't apply to me"  types.     They expect other people to adjust to their behavior, and some of them get hostile when that doesn't happen. I , on the other hand, expect people to follow the same rules as I and everyone else, and when they don't, I say something to them.  I couldn't care less how they feel about my reaction, and the more they get that attitude from other people, the less likely they are to continue with the same rude and inappropriate  behaviors.

The dog running loose in a public park, not only threatens the safety of other dogs in the park, it threatens the safety of everyone, babies in strollers, young kids running around, kids trying to learn to ride a bike,  etc..etc.  I live next to a park, and eveyonce in awhile an off leash dog will come down the path, and you can see the young children and the moms react in a very fearful way, because they have no idea what the dog is going to do. If I am nearby, I tell the owner that I just called 911, and the cops are on their way, which usually gets the owner to leash his dog.   The reason for the laws are to protect society from being threatened by loose dogs, and that is why the laws are in place. All the off leash people wind up doing is creating  anger in the other dog owners, and convincing people that don't have dogs, that dogs are a menace.

they have no idea what the dog is going to do. If I am nearby, I tell the owner that I just called 911, and the cops are on their way, which usually gets the owner to leash his dog. The reason for the laws are to protect society from being threatened by loose dogs, and that is why the laws are in place.

 
That is a great idea.  Because anytime I just say we have a leash law  ...doesn't matter how adorable and nice and good your dog is...they just glaze over your words and give you the 'you are a kill joy look', or look scarily contemptuous at you..
 
The other important thing to recognize is that each time we have an offense, where someone is bitten or owners get between a dog scuffle and get bitten, the efforts to keep laws from going bezerk are going to get more off balance.  I am thinking of the breed legislature. 
 
General public is in great need of real education and the stupid irresponsible dog owners that let these dogs loose, or are walking with them off lead, but without reverence to other's space, generally just letting them go- well, they are giving dogs a bad name. 
 
If it is a malamute that bit, or a pit bull, or a poodle, everyone in town becomes a mob ready to lynch.
 
Stringent laws need following in highly populated areas.  And I guess sensible rules in wooded, country areas aren't a bad idea.
 
We grew up here without leash laws and it was not a problem.  It is obvious that today we do need them.  So many more people and so many more dogs.
 
And as mentioned already, we are certainly pushing wild out of habitat, by eliminating it with housing and businesses.  The danger goes both ways.  Coyotes here, look at anything their own size and smaller as food. Children and actually adults have been bitten and attacked.  They are not behaving as when they had their own land to live off of.  Very out of character and requiring different measures today to keep family pets and children safe!

ORIGINAL: Bobsk8
Any off leash dog that runs up to my dog in a park, is going to get a dose of pepper spray.
 
ORIGINAL: Bobsk8
I am obviouly not talking about a dog that got loose from it's owner and the owner is trying to catch it.  I am talking about a dog that is running free, is aggressive looking in it's demeanor  and is  running up to my dog, where the owner has little or no control of what the dog is doing.  A bit of common sense would prevail. 

You stated an absolute with no qualifications, so the fact that you are more discerning in which dogs you spray was not obvious at all.  Happy to hear that you do use more restraint, but don't expect forum readers to read your mind as well as your words.  As far as common sense is concerned, I have learned not to expect it.
 
I still think that in most cases pepper spray should be a back up to Direct Stop, not the first line of defense.  [sm=backtotopic.gif]

you immediately know that you are dealing with someone that has decided that the law should apply to everyone else but them. They are the same type of people that park in handicaped parking spaces in malls or restaurants because they are too lazy to walk a few hundred feet, or drive the wrong way on a Interstate emergency lane, when there is an accident ahead, and wind up blocking emergency vehicles from getting to the crash, or answer cellphone calls in a theater.

 
Your point could be easily made without these exaggerated, inflammatory assumptions about people whose dogs you would readily pepper-spray.
 

and you can see the young children and the moms react in a very fearful way,

While I completely understand and respect that, the same happens with on-leash dogs.  Many recoil, get tense, and act fearfully anyway.
 

All the off leash people wind up doing is creating anger in the other dog owners, and convincing people that don't have dogs, that dogs are a menace.

This statement might be better-written if you posted it as "all the inattentive off-leash owners and their ill-managed dogs..."  Written like that, I could agree.  They restrict my freedoms as a responsible, respectful dog-owner to bring a well-managed, trained, obedient, loving, sweet, reliable, trustworthy dog onto property previously dog-friendly.
 

I tried to explain to a guy once after I asked him to leash his dogs in our public park, and recieved a string of curse words in reply, that he may in fact have the best behaved dogs in the world, but if he's going to have them off leash, other people, with less well-behaved dogs, are going to see that and think it's okay. An "everyone's doing it" attitude begins to form. And next thing you know, dogs who really have no business being off-leash are being let off because apparently everyone else is doing it and that means it's okay for my dog too.

People are rarely honest with themselves about their dogs. They see that the person with the multiple obedience titled dog is letting it off-leash and they think, "Oh my dog is just like that!" and they do it too. I have talked extensively to folks about this and they really do think this way. We had a dog come up to us once off-leash and it wasn't even wearing a collar! The dog growled and raised it's hackles, the owners were like 20 feet away and finally turned around and mosied back and kind of scruffed the dog and got it moving again (as I was standing there kind of praying and trying to not make a move that would cause Conrad to react negatively to the situation). How 'bout at least a collar? Or how 'bout a leash for a dog who acts like that!

It starts because a few people decide they and their dogs are so good they don't have to follow the law. And their dogs may really be that good, but if they can get away with it, everyone else thinks they should be able to too. It just snowballs.

People are rarely honest with themselves about their dogs.

 
This is very true.  People are like that with children too.  When we start looking at a behavior for what it is, things can improve.  It has to be an effort to work at it.
 
As far as that attitude, entitlement seems to be the offense of a great deal of people today.  Which is why when we see a "bad dog" off leash, we ought to be able to spray them in the eyes with somehthing, LOL!   Not the dog!

ORIGINAL: miranadobe

you immediately know that you are dealing with someone that has decided that the law should apply to everyone else but them. They are the same type of people that park in handicaped parking spaces in malls or restaurants because they are too lazy to walk a few hundred feet, or drive the wrong way on a Interstate emergency lane, when there is an accident ahead, and wind up blocking emergency vehicles from getting to the crash, or answer cellphone calls in a theater.

Your point could be easily made without these exaggerated, inflammatory assumptions about people whose dogs you would readily pepper-spray.

and you can see the young children and the moms react in a very fearful way,

While I completely understand and respect that, the same happens with on-leash dogs.  Many recoil, get tense, and act fearfully anyway.

All the off leash people wind up doing is creating anger in the other dog owners, and convincing people that don't have dogs, that dogs are a menace.

This statement might be better-written if you posted it as "all the inattentive off-leash owners and their ill-managed dogs..."  Written like that, I could agree.  They restrict my freedoms as a responsible, respectful dog-owner to bring a well-managed, trained, obedient, loving, sweet, reliable, trustworthy dog onto property previously dog-friendly.

If I ever decide to write a book, I will contact you to edit it for me.  []

ORIGINAL: houndlove

I tried to explain to a guy once after I asked him to leash his dogs in our public park, and recieved a string of curse words in reply, that he may in fact have the best behaved dogs in the world, but if he's going to have them off leash, other people, with less well-behaved dogs, are going to see that and think it's okay. An "everyone's doing it" attitude begins to form. And next thing you know, dogs who really have no business being off-leash are being let off because apparently everyone else is doing it and that means it's okay for my dog too.

Taking that a step further, the type of guy that cursed at you is also the type of owner that is likely to have a dog with a hostile  attitude , since he is probably the one that trained it. 

ORIGINAL: dogslife
We were camping  and one of the huskies got loose , my husband called for the girl...LOL, and the dog came running to him, very much to his amazement!  And it was the boy!!! 

So, now we know the trick to getting him to come when called!  What do you think is in the dogs head when it comes to being called in?

 
Don't get used to that. It'll only work for so long. Then the husky will wisen up! Mine did

quote:

All the off leash people wind up doing is creating anger in the other dog owners, and convincing people that don't have dogs, that dogs are a menace.
This statement might be better-written if you posted it as "all the inattentive off-leash owners and their ill-managed dogs..." Written like that, I could agree. They restrict my freedoms as a responsible, respectful dog-owner to bring a well-managed, trained, obedient, loving, sweet, reliable, trustworthy dog onto property previously dog-friendly.

 
Here here!  There are some dogs and some locations where it is fine to let dogs off-leash, and the irresponsible idiots who can't figure this out ruin it for everyone. And the ones who let their dogs run out of control at the end of flexis are NOT responsible or in control of their dogs just because they have a leash on the dog. It's not about leashes, it's about control and responsibility.

I know!  What is in his head when husband was mistakenly calling her, is what is she getting that I am missing out on? 
 
One thing about Sibes is that they do love a fine treat from the fridge.  I think it may work a couple more times with him, but if the girl gets loose, she looses her mind completely.  She runs like she were on an lsd trip and does not stop til she literally passes out.  Or if she happened to stop to think about the treat you are waving at her...but generally she is out of sight before you even knew she beat it.

ETA: Personally i couldnt/wouldnt have a dog that i couldnt let off lead,it would break my heart to never see them interact freely with other dogs regularly,or follow a scent and all the other doggy things that just cant be done stuck on the end of a leash.

You'd hate to meet Teenie. Her version of "free interaction" with other dogs involves chest-butting, biting, and snarling. She is *not* dog-safe, nor is she child-safe. It's true that she's a small dog, and only 12 pounds. She'd never do any serious damage to another being. She could easily get herself killed, though.

She has zero recall. I got her when she was 9 years old. I've been working on it for a year and a half. I've also been struggling to house train her, and give her the lightest possible socialization. She is severely emotionally scarred. It might break your heart to see her. It really might. It breaks mine every single day. I can't keep her with my other dog(s, if I'm fostering or babysitting). I can't take her to play at the beach. I can't raise my voice around her, or touch her with my feet. I can't surprize her with any quick movements. Letting her off leash is the BOTTOM of my list. Having her feel safe is at the top. Since she'll likely never feel safe, and I can't seem to get any confidence into her, she'll never be off leash.

Some dogs have needs beyond "normal". Both of mine do. Some entire breeds just come with "special" needs. It's a part of what makes them different, and absolutely fascinating. I don't think I'd let a primitive dog run free. I've seen a Basenji scale a 6 foot fence in 3 seconds flat (and I'm NOT exagerating). I wouldn't let a sighthound run free. My crazy vermin dog runs free, but only because I've spent literally thousands of hours training her and working through her violent tendencies, and putting a rock solid recall on her. She's now human friendly and dog friendly. She doesn't approach a stranger unless she's told to "go say hi!". 99% of the dogs I know are not half as trained as she is, and I wouldn't trust them running loose.