Dog walking off leash

ORIGINAL: janet_rose

Any off leash dog that runs up to my dog in a park, is going to get a dose of pepper spray.

If the dog is in no way aggressive and particularly if the owner is trying to catch a dog or puppy that slipped its collar/harness, you are setting yourself up to be decked - and rightfully so.  I sure wouldn't convict the owner of assault and I would saddle you with any vet bills.
 
Punishing every loose dog for your daughter's incident isn't exactly responsible behavior, so you better not have any witnesses to your spraying a friendly dog.  That is called animal abuse and it is mean!!  [sm=censored.gif]   [:@]
 
How in the world can you justify putting a friendly dog thru the pain of pepper spray when you also try to tug on people's heart strings about some of the less-than-kind euthanasia methods?  It makes me doubt your sincerity about the latter.
 
Yell at the owner if you want or file a complaint, but leave the friendly dogs alone so you don't help make them aggressive.  That can cause more problems like the one your daughter had.  [sm=smack.gif]
 
If you must spray a friendly dog, use Direct Stop.  That is unpleasant, but it would be much safer for the dogs, your health, and your pocketbook.  Geezzzz!   

If someone allows their dog off leash in a public area (where it is not allowed), and that dog runs up to and bothers others, then pepper spray is a risk that they run.  What if the dog on the leash is highly dog aggressive?  The owner of said dog is following the law and walking his/her dog on a leash.  The person with the loose dog is breaking the law.  A face full of pepper spray is much better then the injuries the loose dog might suffer if he approaches the dog aggressive leashed dog.  If a dog is charging at your leashed dog, you often have about 2 seconds to decide if the loose dog is going to be friendly or dangorous.  Unless you have spent years and years and years studying dog body language it is virtually impossible to determine if the offending dog is going to attack yours or not.  Some dogs are very good at hiding their intentions or don't decide if a dog is toast until they have properly met.

Jack is pretty good off leash.  If I had him in a public park that required dogs to be on leash only, and I chose to let him off leash and he got nailed with pepper spray for running up to someone elses leashed dog I would only be pissed at MYSELF for FAILING as a responsible dog owner and causing my dog to be injured in the process.  Actually, if the dog he ran up to was aggressive, I prefer pepper spray vet bills to face-ripped-off vet bills.

I seriously doubt that the person who sprayed a dog that was illegally loose and charged their leashed dog is going to be able to claim animal abuse when it was them who put their dog in the position to be sprayed by allowing it to run loose and harass people and dogs.

ORIGINAL: Edie


If i took my dogs out on lead for every walk,we would get home and they wouldnt be mentally or physically satisfied and they surely wouldnt settle,i wouldnt class an on lead walk as exercise.I like to see my guys pooped out at the end of the day,and i want them to sleep because they are tired,not because they have to...

I am a responsible dog owner,i put alot of time into getting rock solid recalls and getting them socialised to every possible scenario i could,and mines and their reward is that they are allowed free running exercise off the lead.
If all people put the time and effort into training their dogs from day 1,then most dogs could also be trusted off lead,but for most pet owners these days,it is all too hard and life is much easier to have their dogs on lead all of the time or just not take them out at all.Too many folk just dont have the time for dogs and shouldnt have them...

ETA: Personally i couldnt/wouldnt have a dog that i couldnt let off lead,it would break my heart to never see them interact freely with other dogs regularly,or follow a scent and all the other doggy things that just cant be done stuck on the end of a leash.

Just because a dog cannot be let off leash does not mean that the owner is too lazy to train them.  We got Sally a a year old, thus not being able to socialize her as a puppy.  She wants to play with some dogs, growls at others, and we never know which dogs she will like and which dogs she will not until she has met them.  We have put tons of effort into training her to the point that we drive a 4 hour round trip every couple of weeks to do private lessons with a trainer to help her with her dog issues.  However, she is not now, nor will she ever be, a dog that I would trust off leash in an area that is not fenced.  She gets leashed *gasp* walks daily and whenever we can we get her out on her harness and thirty ft line in an area with few dogs.  She is fit, looks forward to her daily walks, does not act out due to boredom, and has Jack the lab to hang out with at home.

Although, I guess by your standards it would be better for her to be PTS then to live such a life of utter misery[8|][8|][8|]....

Gypsy has rock solid recall (I have even called her off a cat she was chasing in OUR yard) but she will not be loose in a park or anywhere else that I (ME) do not have complete control of.  Why? Because if there IS a fight, Gypsy will be blamed simply by the virtue of being a bull breed. She is good with everyone, but it only takes ONE time for a tragedy to occur.

I find it interesting that at dog shows, our dogs are ALL leashed  or in crates of exercise pens.  Dogs are not allowed to run loose.  People are taking repsonsiblity for their dogs and making sure that all are properly walked, pottied, etc.

I live in the UK, and follow the laws as they exist here. Ben is leashed on sidewalks, anywhere near traffic, anywhere public but indoors where he is permitted to be, and anywhere I just think I need to have him leashed.

The rest of the time he is off-leash. ALWAYS. Very, very few parks have leash laws here...those that do are mostly tiny ones in London. At every single park in my city I am welcome to have my dog off-leash, and I do.

Ben NEVER approaches a strange person or a leashed dog without permission. I have trained him not to, and he simply doesn't do it. Other off-leash dogs are fair game, because of the prevailing attitude here. Almost exclusively, in every park I take him to, those who know their dog isn't safe off-leash (for whatever reason) keeps them on.

It's like an unwritten code here: an off-leash dog is safe and may be approached by humans and animals. A leashed dog must not be approached without calling ahead to the owner. I pretty much never do that, unless it's a small puppy and I can aid somehow with socialisation. (Ben is good with puppies...gentle and patient....often owners of puppies are grateful for their dog to meet a friendly larger dog.)

Honestly, I think dogs here are better socialised than the impression I get of the US. Since everyone lets their dogs off-leash from a young age (and yes in secure areas) the dogs grow up interacting with other safe dogs and people, and being taken more places because there are more places where they are allowed. The result of this is that fewer dogs develop the aggression problems which can (I am not saying this is the only cause) develop from a lack of socialisation.

I'm not saying dog fights don't happen...they do and there are dogs I don't feel comfortable having Ben around. But I do think it happens less often. This is a dog loving nation and people truly get dogs as companions to take everywhere, because we are raised to believe that's what a dog is.

Ben would go absolutely nuts without his daily off-leash walks I think, at least while he's still in puppyhood. After he's 2 he'll still get them, I just don't think he'll be as hyper if he doesn't get one on a specific day.

The law here states that Ben must be leashed in all the places I listed above, and that in any other places he must simply be under my control. He is....he leaves everything and everyone alone unless given the OK to approach. I am just not going to leash my dog unless he HAS to be leashed. I know the idea of that probably scares the tar out of some people, but I have put a lot of time and effort into making sure that it is safe for me to have that attitude. I will never endanger my dog or anyone else's.

It would be a much more perfect world if dog owners in the US were half as responsible as those in the UK, or so it seems from what we're seeing here.
 
When DS is working, it's normally out of town.  DH leaves far later than normal so the dogs can have a chance to play before being crated while we are gone, and I plan my work to end my day up this way and at worst I'm home a full hour earlier than normal.  They *might* spend 6 hours in the crates on those days.  Mine CHOOSE to sleep in their crates at night.  We have a routine that never varies much in the evening and by golly when one of us stands up to go to bed the dogs are ready to go downstairs to their crates.  We have TRIED to keep them upstairs, but they WANT to go to their own beds.
 
Morning and evening both they get a good rousing game of fetch regardless of who is home.  This lasts for a good 40 minutes to an hour.  This used to always be outside the fence, but right now, with our road being a detour for a major hwy, we judge the traffic volume before we make that decision.  Our little dead end gravel road is neither public (maintained by the county) nor private (able to be blocked off) and it is not at all uncommon for folks to come down the little road  at a pretty high rate of speed and use our driveway (or front yard) as a turn around.  Having it posted does nothing to stop the jerks.  Occassionally we will drag the barricade out and risk a visit by the sherriff....we usually do this on high traffic weekends and for short periods so we CAN play with the dogs in a much larger area.  We also have weave poles and a few jumps set up in the yard, but that's a couple dogs at a time at best kind of deal.  But they all get a chance to run the course a few times each week.
 
It's not fair for those of you who live in a different country, with a different culture, to make sweeping generalizations that those of us who can't do multiple off leash walks on a daily basis and use crates, shouldn't have dogs.  I have happy, contented animals, who are well loved, who know that they are well loved, and whose physical, mental and emotional needs are met to the best of our abilities.  And there are THREE of us working on that.
 
We live in the country FOR the dogs.  It would be much handier not to commute 26 miles every day to and from work.  it would be far easier to not have almost an acre to maintain and keep short enough to discourage snakes, to not have to be concerned about deer eating my garden or snakes invading my garage and having the gall to slither over my power tools (which is an act of blasphemy), to not have to pay to have my road plowed every time it snows, etc, etc, etc.  But the dogs wouldn't be anywhere near as happy in the city where they got hushed every time they barked at a squirrel, and had to limit their outside time to specific hours for fear they would emit a single bark.
 
And a vacation?  Wow.  Maybe a weekend away?  Not gonna happen with our responsibilites, including to our dogs.  We devote our lives to our dogs and to helping OTHER dogs....I've had five short term fosters through my doors this year and each and every one has taken a piece of my heart when they left.  My dogs are happy.  That's the litmus test for me.  Not how far or how often they are walked off leash, and certainly not where they spend their days when I am working to support them.

ORIGINAL: glenmar

It's not fair for those of you who live in a different country, with a different culture, to make sweeping generalizations that those of us who can't do multiple off leash walks on a daily basis and use crates, shouldn't have dogs. 

I didn't do that....did I?

There is currently a bill under consideration that required dogs leashed and licensed at all times when not on the owners property... Got to admit I will be far more inclined to support that bill than BSL or mandatory spay neuter.
 
This is in Ohio.

Personally i couldnt/wouldnt have a dog that i couldnt let off lead,it would break my heart to never see them interact freely with other dogs regularly,or follow a scent and all the other doggy things that just cant be done stuck on the end of a leash.

Oh no look at the untrained, horribly abused dogs!!!!

There are some breeds of dogs that you should not ever ever ever allow to be off-leash without a secure fence. BREW (beagle rescue) will not even adopt to you if you don't state emphatically that you will never let your beagle off leash without a fence. Scenthounds, sighthounds, sled dogs, none are good candidates for being off-leash in most circumstances. Recall training for my hounds has been a top priority because in an emergency I have to be able to recall them, but hopefully that day will never come. They are not simply labs with long ears, they have very different needs. So while other people letting their dogs off leash in busy public places gets my hackles up, being accused of not training my dogs well enough and abusing them because I keep the safety of my dogs foremost in my mind at all times, well, I'm fairly furious over that insinuation. While we do have leash-laws here, we also have fenced off-leash parks, and my own dang yard. Those afford ample opportunities for them to get exercise and interact with other dogs (though to hear a lot of people on this board, you shouldn't ever go to those places either--you can't win).

And the crating thing? It doesn't belong in this disucssion but frankly until you've had a 90 lb. dog with seperation anxiety in your house, I'll thank you for not judging my confinement practices. It used to be that such dogs would just be put down. I chose to crate instead.

ORIGINAL: houndlove


They are not simply labs with long ears, they have very different needs.

I think labs are some of the MOST DANGEROUS dogs to have off-leash untrained. They can and will go up to anyone if not trained not to, and they can and will knock over a small child out of sheer enthusiasm. I can count the number of times I have read on this forum of some huge untrained lab mix accosting someone and scaring the bejeezus out of them. Just because they are people friendly and generally all they want is attention, that doesn't mean that they can't be terrifying.

Edie,

What do you mean it's far easier for people to keep their dogs on lead than it is for them to let them off lead?
A LOT of people let their dogs just roam. And their dogs are HORRIBLE because they DO NOT train them!
I spend a LOT of time training my dog. She gets walks, bike rides, flirt pole exercise, all kinds of human interaction and exercise-ON LEASH. Where she SHOULD BE when out in public.
Why?
Because my dog is dog aggressive. I probably will NEVER be able to trust her off lead, though I am working very hard to get her to focus on me. Right now, her instincts control her more than her desire to listen to me. So, I am a responsible owner and leash her when we are out.

I know, I am awful! My dog doesn't get to sniff the scents of the world, on her own, everyday. But she DOES get off leash time, in a fenced in yard, once a week or so.

As I've said, it's not all about allowing doggy to be free when you're a dog owner, it's all about your dog's safety coming first.
It's like when you're a parent. You're not supposed to so much be your child's friend as much as you are supposed to be his parent.
And that's kind of how I see owning a dog.

"Scenthounds, sighthounds, sled dogs, none are good candidates for being off-leash in most circumstances. Recall training for my hounds has been a top priority because in an emergency I have to be able to recall them..."
 
 
I love the pics of your Marlowe and Conrad, adorable.
 
We were camping  and one of the huskies got loose , my husband called for the girl...LOL, and the dog came running to him, very much to his amazement!  And it was the boy!!! 
 
So, now we know the trick to getting him to come when called!  What do you think is in the dogs head when it comes to being called in?
 
 

ORIGINAL: janet_rose

Any off leash dog that runs up to my dog in a park, is going to get a dose of pepper spray.

If the dog is in no way aggressive and particularly if the owner is trying to catch a dog or puppy that slipped its collar/harness, you are setting yourself up to be decked - and rightfully so.  I sure wouldn't convict the owner of assault and I would saddle you with any vet bills.
 
Punishing every loose dog for your daughter's incident isn't exactly responsible behavior, so you better not have any witnesses to your spraying a friendly dog.  That is called animal abuse and it is mean!!  [sm=censored.gif]   [:@]
 
How in the world can you justify putting a friendly dog thru the pain of pepper spray when you also try to tug on people's heart strings about some of the less-than-kind euthanasia methods?  It makes me doubt your sincerity about the latter.
 
Yell at the owner if you want or file a complaint, but leave the friendly dogs alone so you don't help make them aggressive.  That can cause more problems like the one your daughter had.  [sm=smack.gif]
 
If you must spray a friendly dog, use Direct Stop.  That is unpleasant, but it would be much safer for the dogs, your health, and your pocketbook.  Geezzzz!   

I am obviouly not talking about a dog that got loose from it's owner and the owner is trying to catch it.  I am talking about a dog that is running free, is aggressive looking in it's demeanor  and is  running up to my dog, where the owner has little or no control of what the dog is doing. A bit of common sense would prevail...  GeeZZ  to you too   [sm=backtotopic.gif].....

My dogs are Siberian and the general understanding is that you do not let them off lead because they have an innate need to run.  It is not reliable for probably a number of dogs out there to be off lead.  Those who have recall possibly can have a circumstance where they may not be as reliable.  The owner of the dog must be reliable and know what they have in their own dog, as to what are your limits, then of course there are the laws in your community. (and as houndlove brought up, breed tendancy has something to do with this)
 
It is up to a community to get to town meetings or city meetings and discuss and create and follow up on laws that will make owners responsible for their own dogs and whether there is leash law. 
 
I have encountered dogs loose that are not with the owner and when you meet up with the owner they talk about how nice and friendly their dog is.   Who needs the punishment?  I would prefer to spray the owner in the eye with that stuff!!
 

When I say I live out in the sticks......I am not kidding........72 acres of what used to be farmland are being occupied by 16 houses.....so, just about any dog owner walking their dogs here lets their dogs run off leash........we all have it timed, I go early in the morning and later at night, everyone else goes in between......from what I have seen the dogs are used to being off leash and stay we the owners. Now, we do have some neighbors who let their dogs run loose all the time......those dogs usually make their rounds and then go home......I am against an owner leaving their dogs to run loose all the time, but, what can I do........like I said there is no leash law.

Snownose, you are very lucky!  I would just love to feel safe enough and let these fuz balls run free.  That is not to say they haven't done that, about 4 or 5 times. The girl runs out of energy like a hummingbird and we find her passed out on someones lawn down the street and the boy keeps running and stays out of the traffic, thank God and then I can retrieve him out of the police cruiser!  Oh, my blood pressure goes high at these times! (we have fixed our fencing, and gating problems now)
 
Everything has to do with where you live, how populated and the the rules/laws.  Even if you don't have a leash law, you could attend town meeting and suggest some guidelines to keep your animals safe.
 
  Another problem which is pretty bad around here is rabies.   And the wild coyotes, which I never had seen in my life, are appearing in peoples yards.  As well as fox and opposum.  The land is just suburbial now.  Used to be a country town.