Dog walking off leash

But what about stupid people, one might ask? What about your average Joe? Well, in my opinion, no laws should be made to accommodate the lowest common denominator. If it starts out where people trusting "common sense" and it will continue that way; this pressure, in return, will help raise the knowledge of your average Joe. Same applies to socialization of your dogs. That's how it 'backfires', in a good sense .

YEAH!!!!!!!!!

Since we're already rather off topic.....[]  don't they have a major alcoholism problem in Russia?

ORIGINAL: glenmar

Since we're already rather off topic.....[] don't they have a major alcoholism problem in Russia?

Oh shoot, they do. Cross off everything I said there.

Your dog is not aggressive because she is on leash; of course not! You're cutting a whole chunk from the equation in efforts to explain her behavior. It doesn't just take you, your dog, and a leash - it takes cooperation from the whole community (including other dogs), officials, education, and time. Time that parents and general public are willing to take to educate theirs and neighborhood kids; and really, it's hard to explain, but that's how cultures are established.
You make a law, another law, and another; your government now has an upper hand in pushing down "common sense" onto people. Now you hear a terrible story from a woman whose kid was bit ... while a dog was on a leash, so you make another law on leash size. That will not stop an idiot from doing Y, so what's next? Another law to shorten the size of it? It's not about the size of your leash - thats' my basic point... Laws are fine, I do have a problem with people who stop right there.
It's interesting, but in Russia for example, it's illegal to buy alcohol until you turn 16; before 16 your parents have to buy it for you (it's never illegal to drink it). The law is in your parent's hands, not the government; the government (with all it's faults) trusts parents enough, and I do like that attitude.
But what about stupid people, one might ask? What about your average Joe? Well, in my opinion, no laws should be made to accommodate the lowest common denominator. If it starts out where people trusting "common sense" and it will continue that way; this pressure, in return, will help raise the knowledge of your average Joe. Same applies to socialization of your dogs. That's how it 'backfires', in a good sense .

I really agree with you here, and not just leash laws but laws like animal neglect, drinking and driving, etc.  Things that are just....duh!!!

However, I still think that in areas where there are enough incidents of dogs at large biting people, leash laws can be appropriate because they legally establish one person's liability.  It's more for being able to say, "yes that dog was at fault for that child needing 100 stitches on his face" than to deter "normal" folk from taking their Golden for a hike in the woods.  If, legally, the person with the agressive dog was not doing anything wrong (because there is no law to say that animals must be properly confined, yadda yadda), they can't really be held liable even though their dog ran into someone else's yard and bit a child.

To be honest, young folks (before 21) drink more responsibly in Europe; they get a bit too excited here when they turn 21 []. I spent 1/2 of my life in RU and the rest in the US (some time in Malta and the UK, my DH is Scottish [])... But enough about me.

I actually don't think it's that off-topic (except the drinking in Russia part...)

Leash laws are a function of two things:

1. Our concept of our dogs
2. Our concept of ourselves.

Leash laws assume that dogs are private, and should be mostly at home (because it's cruel to leash a dog all day every day), and that most people cannot control their dogs using any means other than a leash.

NYC is a place where nothing is really private, and that makes sense for dogs because dogs are social creatures. Aside from intense situations like street fair-type events, my dog really prefers being with me and seeing the city and the people and especially the smells and getting love from all the people who admire him.



And in that kind of setting, a leash is only a first, crude step toward control. A leashed dog can still scare a lot of mothers, trip a lot of pedestrians, gobble a lot of chickenbones, and grab a lot of hotdogs out of people's hands on a crowded sidewalk.

New Yorkers deal with leash laws the way they deal with most laws. The overwhelming majority deeply understand the spirit of the law, and work to follow that *spirit* religiously. Cops will not ticket most offleash dog owners most of the time.

Some people are a-holes. And we all wait for them to break the leash law, so that we can apply it to the letter. When cops are trying to find the one a-hole who prompted all the 311 calls, the good people get tickets for awhile and have to be more careful. And that is taken instride.

It was my understanding that you were not allowed to breed, buy or sell the breeds in question...nor import them from elsewhere.

Thats what i thought too.I thought pitt bulls etc were banned completely.Obviously they are still around and still being bred and are re-named staffs or whatever,but i thought they were illegal to own??

I'm told (maybe you can verify Edie) that in the UK the RSPCA will not allow people to adopt cats if the people are going to keep them indoors and don't own a "garden"

I'm not sure,but i know indoor cats are a rarity in the UK,most people think it's cruel,not forgetting that de-clawing is Banned over there too.Thank God!
They deal with feral cat colonies differently aswell.They catch them,get them spayed/neutered and then return them to the colony.

As far as i know dog shelters in the UK do not spay or neuter before adopting,that is up to the owner to do when the dog is of a suitable age,eg not 8 weeks or younger like they do here [:@]

....wandering a bit further off topic......I turned 18 29 days after the legal drinking age was lowered to 18 in my state.  I didn't go nuts when I did, but I was raised in a home where alcohol was no big deal.  My folks had a beer now and then and liquor in the house around holidays...and we always got a tiny bit of it in a whole lot of mixer.
 
Now, back on topic, while I do not want to have to deal with citations for walking my dogs off lead in town, my primary concern is for their safety.  And while I could likely let them walk off lead in town, well, it would make me too uptight to enjoy the walk. And while the walk IS for them, when the heck are we suppsoed to practice leash manners?
 

Glenda i have mine on lead in town and near/on streets aswell.It's only when we go to parks/fields/beach or wherever is when they get to run free off leash.
I wouldnt walk the most obedience titled dog in the world on a sidewalk near traffic off leash.

In a perfect world we could all have our dogs off lead in a number of different situations.  Sadly, the world we live in is anything but.  And, while I agree that laws don't make folks behave like responsible adults, I'm not sure what the options would be.

I'm not sure,but i know indoor cats are a rarity in the UK,most people think it's cruel,not forgetting that de-clawing is Banned over there too.Thank God!
They deal with feral cat colonies differently aswell.They catch them,get them spayed/neutered and then return them to the colony.

That is catching on here.  The shelters I've volunteered for and adopted from will not declaw cats.  They will not allow you to declaw a cat over a certain weight and even then you can only do the front.  Many vets won't do it.  Two of mine were done at a lab I got them from, but they were done before they weighed 2 lbs (so they bounce right back within 2 days are fine) and they don't do it anymore.

Our city also speuters and releases ferals.  There are several organizations that do it.  You call them and they will come catch the cats and do it in their mobile hospital truck.

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[font=verdana][size=3]The shelters I've volunteered for and adopted from will not declaw cats.

[/size][/font]For any lurkers who do not know, declawing a cat means amputating the last joint of each toe (and severing nerves, ligaments, and tendons).  There is no way to just remove the claw, since it is an integral part of the toe.
 
This means a very painful recovery and permanent balance issues.  The cat also loses its primary defense mechanism, so it is very vulnerable in any type of fight.
 
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[font="times new roman, times"][size=3]Complications of this amputation can be excruciating pain, damage to the radial nerve, hemorrhage, bone chips that prevent healing, painful regrowth of deformed claw inside of the paw which is not visible to the eye, and chronic back and joint pain as shoulder, leg and back muscles weaken.

Other complications include postoperative hemorrhage, either immediate or following bandage removal is a fairly frequent occurrence, paw ischemia, lameness due to wound infection or footpad laceration, exposure necrosis of the second phalanx, and abscess associated with retention of portions of the third phalanx. Abscess due to regrowth must be treated by surgical removal of the remnant of the third phalanx and wound debridement. During amputation of the distal phalanx, the bone may shatter and cause what is called a sequestrum, which serves as a focus for infection, causing continuous drainage from the toe. This necessitates a second anesthesia and surgery. Abnormal growth of severed nerve ends can also occur, causing long-term, painful sensations in the toes.

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ORIGINAL: janet_rose

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[font="verdana"][size="3"]The shelters I've volunteered for and adopted from will not declaw cats.

[/size][/font]For any lurkers who do not know, declawing a cat means amputating the last joint of each toe (and severing nerves, ligaments, and tendons).  There is no way to just remove the claw, since it is an integral part of the toe.

This means a very painful recovery and permanent balance issues.  The cat also loses its primary defense mechanism, so it is very vulnerable in any type of fight.

[link>http://www.declawing.com/htmls/declawing.htm]http://www.declawing.com/htmls/declawing.htm[/link][/size]

[font="times new roman, times"][size="3"]Complications of this amputation can be excruciating pain, damage to the radial nerve, hemorrhage, bone chips that prevent healing, painful regrowth of deformed claw inside of the paw which is not visible to the eye, and chronic back and joint pain as shoulder, leg and back muscles weaken.

Other complications include postoperative hemorrhage, either immediate or following bandage removal is a fairly frequent occurrence, paw ischemia, lameness due to wound infection or footpad laceration, exposure necrosis of the second phalanx, and abscess associated with retention of portions of the third phalanx. Abscess due to regrowth must be treated by surgical removal of the remnant of the third phalanx and wound debridement. During amputation of the distal phalanx, the bone may shatter and cause what is called a sequestrum, which serves as a focus for infection, causing continuous drainage from the toe. This necessitates a second anesthesia and surgery. Abnormal growth of severed nerve ends can also occur, causing long-term, painful sensations in the toes. [/size]

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Many cats that are declawed also develop behavioral problems as they get older, including not going in the litter box. 

Also, for lurkers, Amstaffs (American Staffordshire Terriers) and American Pit bull Terriers are, in essence, the same dog. One is bred for work, moreso, and one is bred for show/conformation. Though the APBT IS bred for show/conformation, just not recognized by the AKC.

Amstaffs ARE recognized by the AKC, and because of the AKC breed standard, they are now bred to be a different dog. They are bred to look different. But the breed characteristics, are still QUITE similar to those of the APBT. 200 years of these dogs being bred for bull baiting, hog hunting, and dog fighting, isn't going to disappear over 50 years. The drive is still there and those who own amstaffs still have to be JUST AS careful with their dogs around other dogs as APBTs owners need to be.
Both breeds are FABULOUS dogs with a loyalty to their owners that can rarely be matched by any other breed.

Those with amstaffs, if any of my information is incorrect, PLEASE correct me.
I don't want to misinform anyone, but this is the information that I've been able to gather.

ORIGINAL: TinaK
The kind of community that I'd like to live in is not obsessed with laws, restrictions and more restrictions. In the end, there will always be a "legal" idiot who allowed his dog to cause trouble on a 6 ft leash. That's how we wind up hearing about people suing microwave companies for not explicitly stating that *it's not OK* to dry your cat in a microwave oven...

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Yep, I want to live there, too. It's called the Land of Self-Responsibility. Aaahhhhh! []