What does "feminism" mean to you?

fair enough...thank you Bradley. I just didn't want you thinking no one cares what you think...because in my case at least that's far from truth.

badrap

I'm not sure if this is meant to be sarcastic or not.  I'm just curious why it's not okay with you to have the discussion?

like most "-isms" its core has merit, but that merit has been perverted and corrupted by the extremists.

cyclefiend2000

like most "-isms" its core has merit, but that merit has been perverted and corrupted by the extremists.

well said, and to a point, I agree.  What I don't agree with is that just because SOME people have bastardized the ideal that the rest of us should then completely discount it....

That's like saying that conservative politics are a joke solely because of the KKK.....

I took an entire college course devoted to this and still don't have a clear definition.

To me, the word always comes with connotations that women are somehow admitting to being inferior and should get special treatment.  Therefore, I don't consider myself a feminist.  I don't think that to be treated equitably is to be treated equally, if that makes sense.  Men and women are very different in many ways and I'd rather just acknowledge this and move on.  Also, too many feminist movements seems so "woe is me!"  For me, jumping on that bandwagon is like admitting that I AM less than a man and thus need special treatment in certain circumstances and I don't always believe that is true.  As for the glass ceiling thing, I dunno, I work in IT and every other person on my team is a man and yet I am doing just fine.  I think it's more about who you actually work for/with than sweeping generalities like women are persecuted at work.  The only people that have ever misjudged me simply b/c I'm a women have been a few customers (who assume I am a receptionists, not a technician), but not any of the men I work with and most of these guys are old enough to be my dad.  My salary and my title depend on my qualifications.  For example, last year I wanted a raise so I found the document that describes what I need to be at the next level on the hierarchy.  I went to three soft skills seminars and I finished several courses of technical training and voila!  I got my raise even though I work with men and the trainers at these classes were men.

badrap

well said, and to a point, I agree.  What I don't agree with is that just because SOME people have bastardized the ideal that the rest of us should then completely discount it....

no but it makes it hard to politely talk about when you have no idea where on the extremist spectrum the other person lands.

cyclefiend2000

 it makes it hard to politely talk about when you have no idea where on the extremist spectrum the other person lands.

I think that so far we have all been very clear about where we fall, some more extreme than others, with the link you posted being IMHO the most extreme by far.

I'm not into "polite".  I am into "respectful honesty".  There's a big difference, don't you think?

Liesje

I took an entire college course devoted to this and still don't have a clear definition.

very important point, indeed.  Like all hot topic issues, it's easy to become apologietic and muddle the subject matter so that nobody knows what anyone is really talking about.

To me, the word always comes with connotations that women are somehow admitting to being inferior and should get special treatment.  Therefore, I don't consider myself a feminist.  I don't think that to be treated equitably is to be treated equally, if that makes sense. 

Interesting and insightful!!!  In some ways, I agree and that's why I often bristle when people call me a feminist.

As for the glass ceiling thing, I dunno, I work in IT and every other person on my team is a man and yet I am doing just fine.  I think it's more about who you actually work for/with than sweeping generalities like women are persecuted at work. 

Hmmm... I agree with the part about sweeping generalities, but not with the "WHO" you work for, but rathere "WHERE" you work.  IT is a well-educated field, and I believe at this point, people who are well-educated are considerably less likely to limit women based solely on gender.  The world of the factory worker and the mechanic are considerably different, or at least this was MY experience.  I am sure someone will come along and say that I wasn't qualified for promotion, so let me say that on paper, I absolutely WAS qualified for promotion, and even begged my supervisors for more training and more responsibilities.  I was completely stonewalled, and some of the "trainers" even went so far as to say to my face that they wouldn't train a woman.

badrap

I'm not into "polite".  I am into "respectful honesty".  There's a big difference, don't you think?

potato ... potato ... same thing no matter how you say it.

hmm, i think it is in part a movement that has this "anti-men" undertone... so personally i am not a big fan. i do think it was necessary so that women today have equal rights. sometimes you need extreme movements to make a change.. just the way it is. i think these days you can already see the "trend" swinging back to "normal".

personally i know that even today there might be a point where i end up in a situation where i am not taken seriously, just because i am a woman. it hasnt happened yet. but if it ever does, i hope i can shrug it off. it happens. i think everyone has their own baggage. getting all wound up about something isnt gonna do anyone any good.

I also think feminism is an evil word.  I think it's supposed to mean that men and women are equal and we can do anything they can.  But I don't agree with that.  I think we were created with different roles and different capabilities that complement each other.  Not to say, women shouldnt have the right to vote or go to school, because I think we should have those opportunities.  But as a 31 year old, I honestly don't understand what the women who brought about this feministic change to society were thinking.  I would give anything to stay at home, clean, bake, take care of kids, help at the school, make dinner from scratch.  But instead, I sit inside an office building in a cubicle all day long.  I get home, no energy to make dinner or walk the dog.  I honestly don't know how people with kids and jobs do it.  As an educated woman, I constantly feel split because I'm supposed to be keeping up with the boys on jobs and raises but then at the same time I'm supposed to be a woman with kids and nuturing that side of life too.  I just don't think the trade off was a fair one.  I also think that feminism has changed the role of men, I think a lot of them have lost their God given role to protect and provide for women and family have gone out the window and I'm sure many of them are lost and confused as to what they are supposed to do.  It's changed family and relationship dynanmics, I am sure of that.  Woman don't need them anymore, they leave them after 30 years of marriage because things got too routine and they just don't need their paychecks anymore.  I think people need to need each other and we as a culture have decided that it is wrong to need each other.  On the same note as Glenda, I think society has become the trash that it is because of feminism, kids don't have parents home.  Parents are tired when they are home.  Kids become second fiddle.  Now with schools and daycares being unable to discipline, kids can do whatever they want.  Childhoods are spent in after school homework clubs instead of adventures out in the neighborhood.  I had a stay at home mom and it kills me to think that if I had kids, they would have to spend summers in daycamp rather than the lazy long summers I had at home.  I also wonder what femisnism has really brought us, because girls still go out looking like hookers to attract boys and get attention.  I don't understand how the Pussycat Dolls say they have girl power, because they are just using their bodies, isn't that the opposite point of feminism?  So maybe we haven't come as far as we thought?

While I am greatful to have gone to school and to have grown up never feeling inferior or less capable and that we have the opportunities we do, I think they come at a very steep price. 

cyclefiend2000

badrap

I'm not into "polite".  I am into "respectful honesty".  There's a big difference, don't you think?

 

potato ... potato ... same thing no matter how you say it.

in my opinion, "polite" means: smile and lie because I think you're a crackhead.

"respectful honesty" means: grit my teeth and find a decent way to speak my mind even if I don't agree with you.

So NO.  In my world, a potato is NOT a potato.  Some potatoes are brown with thick skin, and some are red with thin skin....

Feminism is Not a dirty word! The women before us who fought so that we can vote,own land,inherit money,attend college deserve our respect and admiration.We can still choose to stay home with our children instead of the corporate fast track.With rights come responsabilities.The women's movement doesn't guarantee you can have it all,Just that you now have greater options.

Tena

badrap

Some potatoes are brown with thick skin, and some are red with thin skin....

there are definitely alot of thin skinned ones around.