VP debate...who did she think she was winking at?

badrap

I'm sorry, I'm a Palin hater and I'm absolutely not going to hide it.  Not here, nor anywhere else. She's about as poor a representative of a Woman as I've ever seen in my life, and I don't want her anywhere near the office of the VP

And I'm a Palin liker. And I have a new car in the driveway. And thanks to my co-sig on a loan app, DW has a new car, too. Just because the Gov of Alaska makes more money than I do is no concern to me. And I would expect someone in Alaska to own or have access to alternate transportation.

As for the title of the thread, she was winking at me, only me. Sorry I couldn't warn the rest of you about our inside jokes.

Jewlieee

It is so obvious that she is scripted and playing to the "commoners".

And I'm a commoner. Not quite middle class but working to get there. When is someone going to play to me?

Jewlieee

 I want a woman in office. If she were on the democrats side, (and wasn't such a conservative) I'd be very happy to be voting for her. I also want someone with a different ethnic back ground in office - whether it be black, asian, mexican american, whatever. This country needs a non-white male in the President or VP position. It's way past time for it.

I can't help but notice the racism and partisan politics in this statement. I truly agree that the time is now when we quit considering race and gender for an office. But I don't think we should elect someone simply because of their race or gender to prove that we can do that. That is just as much a problem of racism and gender because it takes away from their true abilities and qualifications, which should have nothing to do with race or gender.

And it is politics. If Palin were Dem and smidge more liberal, she would not endure the slander she gets now.

ron2

Jewlieee

... I also want someone with a different ethnic back ground in office - whether it be black, asian, mexican american, whatever. This country needs a non-white male in the President or VP position. It's way past time for it.

I can't help but notice the racism and partisan politics in this statement. I truly agree that the time is now when we quit considering race and gender for an office. But I don't think we should elect someone simply because of their race or gender to prove that we can do that. That is just as much a problem of racism and gender because it takes away from their true abilities and qualifications, which should have nothing to do with race or gender.

And it is politics. If Palin were Dem and smidge more liberal, she would not endure the slander she gets now.

Racism in her statement? Please. It is institutional racism that has kept our country from getting this far at any point prior to this. I am more than sure that Jewlileee's sentiments, that match mine as well, stem from a political stance, from a representative stance, and from an educated stance... far from a racist stance. (Finally) Electing someone that represents the population (of course, no one person could ever represent the vast diversity that is American society, but putting someone in office whose representation goes far beyond the dominant population) is anything but racist. It is moving beyond "The Color of Bureaucracy" to quote Dr. Colleen Larson, when it comes to leadership. Its about time that the voiceless in our society be given a voice. The desire to have a person of color in office goes far beyond *just* race, but much deeper into the needs of our society at large.

In Dallas, at one time, they finally had an african-american mayor and police chief. And the city ran the same as before. Some good, some bad, which is what I expected, because people are capable of whatever and make mistakes about whatever, regardless of race or gender. I couldn't care less about a person's race or gender and it shouldn't matter to others, as well. And I don't think we should elect someone based on race or gender just to prove that we can or to suppose that doing so repairs past injustices. The person should be elected to the office because they are the best choice, regardless of gender or race, regardless of the past mistakes of this country or society.

The company I work at now, I used to work at before. And was laid off and it was due to the political machinations of another person who is no longer at this company. The owner was willing to hire me back because of my proven track record of skill, ability, and knowledge. In his words, he was willing to overlook the difficulties brought on both him and me by this other individual, who's name has become a dirty word. At the same time, he is not considering the boat load of money I made for them, either. One project I ran I finished on time in spite of a 5 month delay and half the crew I was supposed to have. Another project, with half the crew I was supposed to have finished a month ahead of time with an additional profit of $30k over the original profit margin. None of that matters when I was re-hired. I had to prove myself all over again, which is fair.

So is hiring someone or electing them because they are the right person for the job, not because they have a particular skin color or sit in the bathroom instead of stand. And yes, we should elect someone who can represent the greatest numbers of people and that should have nothing to do with skin color or gender. Electing Obama will not solve the racial problems nor will it undo the Civil War or the crimes of racism in this country. Electing Palin as VP will not undo the history of disenfranchisment of women in this country. Hopefully the country will learn what was evident in Dallas. That there will be good and bad, regardless of gender or race.

ron2

In Dallas, at one time, they finally had an african-american mayor and police chief. And the city ran the same as before. Some good, some bad, which is what I expected, because people are capable of whatever and make mistakes about whatever, regardless of race or gender. I couldn't care less about a person's race or gender and it shouldn't matter to others, as well. And I don't think we should elect someone based on race or gender just to prove that we can or to suppose that doing so repairs past injustices. The person should be elected to the office because they are the best choice, regardless of gender or race, regardless of the past mistakes of this country or society.

The point is, Ron, that regardless of how anyone wants to see it, race *does* matter. To many and for many reasons. Trust me, I don't think anyone is voting for Obama *just* because of his race. He *does* represent the people for many other reasons, on many other issues. However, it is important to note, that as having a POTUS of color will not repair past injustices, it represents a future that is moving towards lessening injustice. Progress. In more ways than one.

alieliza

The point is, Ron, that regardless of how anyone wants to see it, race *does* matter. To many and for many reasons.

I will disagree that race should matter but to some it does matter and I cannot deny that. And I will continue to say that race shouldn't matter. And, FWIW, I have been a victim of racism. Because of my skin color and ethnic heritage. There's been some people of darker skin who didn't like me because I am white. Or they were granted special favors because they were dark and I am not. I have been called a (ETA: I wrote a word that was not a curse word but the censor covered it. It was a word to describe a person of german ancestry) and it wasn't meant in a nice way. Two wrongs don't make a right and my experience with racism doesn't exactly equate me with black man, either. But, at some point in time, we have to quit making decisions based on skin color, ethnic heritage, or gender. And, IMO, we should not make decisions based on sexual orientation, either. Reflect on that one for a moment.

But I will agree with you that for some people, race matters. I do what I can to combat that or take the fire out of it but I'm only one guy.

Good points. I didn't introduce racism to this thread but, if you wish, we could discuss it further in pm. I am constantly in the midst of others who's backgrounds are different than mine. I didn't study it for credit, I'm just down in the trenches, as it were.

ron2

As for the title of the thread, she was winking at me, only me. Sorry I couldn't warn the rest of you about our inside jokes.

 

ron, you are an EVIL GENIUS.  Am I the only one who finds this absolutely HYSTERICAL!!?!?!?!! A+++  It sounds like something my husband would say, and I love it.  Your dry sense of humor shouldn't be ignored!!

However, I have to say that having a sea plane and lakefront property DOES matter- she's NOT the "average American" that she's trying to portray herself as.  If, like Biden, she would admit that she's doing quite a bit better than the "average American", then those things WOULDN'T matter.  At least not to me.  I don't care what Donald Trump has because he doesn't try to pretend to be like me... see what I mean?  I'm actually surprised, Ron, that a hard-working guy like you doesn't see it that way.  I, for one, am SICK to DEATH of these people trying to pretend they're like me because they're not.  Likely they never were. (and not just because I'm an alien)

 I will admit that Palin appears to be pretty freakin sharp- during one of her first televised interviews with Charles *someone* (Grodin?), he asked her about her stance on abortion.  Her answer was this, and this is not a direct quote, "I am going to give you my personal opinion since you are interviewing me- I am absolutely opposed to abortion.  However, my personal opinions are not necessarily going to dictate administrative policy."  I admit it, I was FLOORED. Absolutely FLOORED.  A better answer there never was!  I don't know if it was scripted or not, but it sure sounded honest, and I loved it; absolutely loved it.  Thinking about it now, I STILL think that may be the best answer to any interviewer's question ever.  It DOES show a base level grasp of what it means to be an elected official and not just the Mom of the House.

That said, as smart as she appears, it all goes out the window for me when she gets all cutesy.  It's degrading to women in a way that's unbelievably demoralizing that we must behave "cutely" at least half of the time in order to keep our audience engaged.  Listen, I will never ever forget her abortion answer.  Despite all political feelings I have, I was almost sold by that one comment.  If she would just stick to THAT level of engagement, then I WOULD be sold.  But her pandering to the Maxim men by dangling her non-threatening persona in front of the camera really insults me. 

My vote is not for Obama/Biden.  It is against the "public persona" of Palin and the standard of engagement she is setting for me and all the women of the world.

badrap

ron2

As for the title of the thread, she was winking at me, only me. Sorry I couldn't warn the rest of you about our inside jokes.

 

ron, you are an EVIL GENIUS.  Am I the only one who finds this absolutely HYSTERICAL!!?!?!?!! A+++  It sounds like something my husband would say, and I love it.  Your dry sense of humor shouldn't be ignored!!

I wondered if his DW knew about it, and if so what she thought . . .  

badrap

ron, you are an EVIL GENIUS.  Am I the only one who finds this absolutely HYSTERICAL!!?!?!?!!

Thank you for catching the humor. I was hoping someone would but sometimes politics gets a little heated.

And yes, I appreciate her honesty, too. One may not like her personal stand on something (and there are personal beliefs of hers that I disagree with. For example, I think gay people should marry. Why should heteros have all the suffering?) but I can appreciate her honesty and not willing to say something just to be politically expedient. I noticed in the debate that while neither candidate is against business decisions in same gender relationships, neither is for gay marriage, either. In fact, it was the one thing they both agreed on. So, how do people accept Biden in spite of that? The same way I do. By realizing that a person's personal beliefs do not become law just because they want it to become law.

badrap

I'm actually surprised, Ron, that a hard-working guy like you doesn't see it that way.  I, for one, am SICK to DEATH of these people trying to pretend they're like me because they're not.  Likely they never were. (and not just because I'm an alien)

Well, I am unique and no one is ever going to be quite like me ( some would say that is a blessing for the world). Some of what I have comes through the odd circumstances of my life and some comes from hard work. And I don't suppose Palin has worked any less. I, for one, have never had a baby and I can only imagine the physical, emotional, and mental duress that can bring. I also don't know what it's like to be a woman in a "man's" world and to accomplish what she has in spite of that. Somewhat like my mother, who bucked the system yet at the same time learned the ropes and carved a niche for herself, with less resources than most people here, including Sarah Palin.

To be honest, I don't find Palin to be too "girly." I think she's a butt-kicker who can talk nice but when the toilet backs up she grabs the plunger without hesitation and starts working on the clog. She's not perfect but no one is and I don't think she is trying to be perfect, as she has endured the absolute crapfest hurled at her family because they, too, make mistakes. For goodness sake, I've even heard people give criticism because she decided to have her latest child in spite of the risk of Down's Syndrome. That's her choice, no one else's, and I thought all women had the choice. No one's busted Biden's chops for which kids he has or is it okay since his children were born healthy? That whole thing inspires me to projectile vomiting. And the notion of whether or not she could handle the job and her family. Pure unadulterated sexism. Another bout of upchucking, excuse me. This is the 21st century and I am going to drag everyone into it, even if it is kicking and screaming. Any woman can do anything she sets her mind to doing because the job is not about gender. It's about brains.

And she holds her own in the debate but she will go outside the box if necessary, as she did in her own state.

Maybe my viewpoint is a result of growing up with a strong woman and what my view of that was. Knowing my mother, she would have voted for Palin even though she probably would have thought Palin to be a bit moderate.

OTOH, in politics and persuasion, one doesn't necessarily have to start out swinging the battle-axe.

I think Obama is a smart guy, well-spoken but I have a little more trust in McCain and Palin's background and there are some things about Obama's background I am not clear on.

This is an historic election year but I can't wait until 4 years from now when having women or ethnic minorities in the race means absolutely nothing. It may be a big deal to some right now but eventually, it should not amount to a hill of beans.

ron2

 

This is an historic election year but I can't wait until 4 years from now when having women or ethnic minorities in the race means absolutely nothing. It may be a big deal to some right now but eventually, it should not amount to a hill of beans.

a-freakin-men.

badrap

ron2

 

This is an historic election year but I can't wait until 4 years from now when having women or ethnic minorities in the race means absolutely nothing. It may be a big deal to some right now but eventually, it should not amount to a hill of beans.

a-freakin-men.

 Sorry, racism and sexism run deep. Like either will be gone in 4 years????

It is easy to say that gender and race aren't a big deal when you're the "right" ones.
 

Dog_ma

It is easy to say that gender and race aren't a big deal when you're the "right" ones.

True that! I think the only people I've ever heard deny that gender and/or race are factors in EVERYTHING were white men.

chelsea_b

Dog_ma

It is easy to say that gender and race aren't a big deal when you're the "right" ones.

True that! I think the only people I've ever heard deny that gender and/or race are factors in EVERYTHING were white men.

Thank you, both.

Ron, I tried PMing you, but I remember you saying it doesn't work. That is absolutely true, it doesn't.