Spacing 1 Yr Vaccines???

The very *first* thing to understand is that what they call "annual" or "combo" vaccines are killed vaccines.  They are actually an inferior type of vaccine designed not to last altho they are very hard on the body.  In some cases they don't even last a year.

 What the AVHA (American Veterinary Hospital Assn.) is now recommending, as is most any of the good vet schools, is vaccines only once every THREE years with 'core' vaccines.  Parvo, distemper and adenovirus.

Hepatitis in dogs is not common (and it completely depends on whether it's bacterial or viral and what bacterium caused it).  parainfluenza?  Not an important vaccine and particularly the difficulty with it is that the strains now vax'd for haven't been seen in a number of years. 

Lepto is probably the most difficult and oft-reacted-to vax of any of them and it's pretty common now to see many vets NOT give it.  If you have an outbreak in your area, talk to your vet about it, but it's one that many, many of us won't give at all! 

Ask your vet for "Modified live core vax" of parvo, distemper and adenovirus" -- those are modified live vaccines that will last at least 3 years.  The AVHA is recommending vaxing only once in 3 years and many of us titer and only vax if the titers are low (I vax'd Kee and Luna this year because of that since I need 'paper' because we do pet therapy)

Now re: bordatella -- I only do that when I NEED it to kennel them.  If do do the dog park a lot that's your call.  It's VERY like a flu vaccine.  Yes, it's hard on the immune system (it caused Tink to react worse than any other vaccine she got!) but it only protects to the extent that it covers the particular strain of bordatella that happens to be going around.

Rabies is also a very tough shot - some vets recommend giving it at the same time as the core vaccines, others don't but don't suggest it because it usually means an extra office visit. 

Bottom line -- it's best not to give any at the same time, altho people do.  Usually those core vaccines (my vet uses Merial

After a dog is vaccinated, the vaccine is shed in their stool for 3 weeks or a month.  So it's really best to avoid the dog park depending on how responsible you want to feel. 

Unfortunately most folks don't understand vaccines.  It takes time to build immunity but most places simply want the dog to "be" vaccinated (like 20 minutes before is fine??  they aren't immune yet, but they HAD the shot).

Find out specifically if your state is annual or 3 year for rabies and make sure your vet gives you a certificate good for THREE years if it's a 3 year state.

PS - The Frontline shouldn't make a huge difference -- I give mine when I see a flea and I wouldn't worry about that spacing too much -- it's not absorbed into the body (stays in the oil glands and hair follicles)

I usually do rabies first because I keep that at a specific time for the licensing, like you.  But that's ME.

The problem is that it's almost impossible to *get* parvo & distemper separately -- Merial (which does a vax without thirmerosol) doesn't make it in separate vax that my vet could get.  That's why we had to do the 3 "core" at once.  I wasn't happy about it at all but it was the only thing we could do.

calliecritturs

The problem is that it's almost impossible to *get* parvo & distemper separately -- Merial (which does a vax without thirmerosol) doesn't make it in separate vax that my vet could get.  That's why we had to do the 3 "core" at once.  I wasn't happy about it at all but it was the only thing we could do.

Hmm...I wonder what I was thinking of then? It's possible I'm losing my mind :)

no, in order for your dog to be safe you HAVE TO do the one year booster with all the key vaccines; then you can just do rabies as required by law. Most of the info about vaccines posted above and bandied about on the internet is totally incorrect.

The immune system fights disease in many ways, but primarily via antibodies. It takes the body around two weeks to mount an effective defense against a never-before-seen disease. If the disease is dangerous your dog may die before that happens. If the dog has had prior exposure to the disease the body can mount an effective defense almost immediately and the dog won't develop any symptoms. A vaccine stimulates the immune system to form antibodies against the disease in question without giving the dog the disease. It's not hard on the body- your body makes antibodies against things you get exposed to practically every day. It doesn't suppress the immune system- quite the opposite. The primary danger is an immediate allergic reaction. The more shots you give the dog the greater the risk of an allergic reaction, so giving one combo shot is far safer than multiple shots. The dog may be sore for a few days after a booster shot- this is good, it means the dog's puppy shots "took" and the dog's body was able to immediately gear up an immune reaction. After a vaccination other dogs are perfectly safe from your dog. If it's a booster shot your dog is safe from other dogs; primary puppy shots that's not quite true. Generally the body has to be exposed several times over a period of time in order for the immunity to become strong and persistent- thus the need to ensure the dog gets that one-year-old booster. Killed vaccines are much safer than weakened live viral vaccines; whether they are less effective depends on the vaccine.  There may or may not be a very remote risk of over-stimulating the immune system with vaccines and inducing an autoimmune disease in some dogs- this theory has never been proven in any species.

Mudpuppy, no, it's not incorrect, in fact when we brought Tink home she had never gotten ANY vaccines at all other than the rabies they gave her in Texas before we crossed state lines. 

The AVHA IS saying this - I suggest you check it.  My vet was the driving force behind this -- not a holistic vet (Auburn graduate). 

sl2crmeg

Hmm...I wonder what I was thinking of then? It's possible I'm losing my mind :)

Nope you're not losing it -- this is new.  I've always done individuals when need be previously and they searched all over for me for them.  Now my vet knows I won't use Ft. Dodge, but I *wanted* to do singles b/c Luna only titered low on parvo and Kee only titered low on Distemper so we were only going to do the one that was low (and the other for both were high), but this was what we *had* to do.

I wasn't happy at all about having to give them each a combo, despite the fact that they're a most lasting vaccine, but I got quite an update on the AVHA guidelines in the process because the AVHA wants to make sure that the various companies will comply and educate the vets further because some vets are still stuck on using the "combo" shot and "annual" vaccines.

The parvo component of this shot is actually a recombitant vaccine.  That's a genetically extracted vaccine so it's not the compleve virus cell, but only the parts necessary to provide immunity but they can't get the disease (it's not as risky).  They've been working on recombitant vax for several years but this is the first time it's been commercially availalable at affordable prices. 

There is *not* (at least as of the first week of July, 2008) a recombitant available for distemper but they're trying to get it developed. 

By asking your vet to do single shots - he can't just order ONE vaccine, he has to order a whole tray, which is at least $60-70. Why would they want to order a whole tray for one single vaccine? I would assume that that's why most vets don't want to do it.

Petsmarts Banfield uses individual shots, I believe (that way they can charge more........ by charging $20 per SHOT, instead of $20 for the combo)

Nope, because I *volunteered* to buy the entire tray of vaccines (and figured we could donate them or something) and they just plain weren't available -- my vet uses Merial but investigated other companies.  What they told me, after a pretty extensive search, was that they couldn't find a reputable source selling the singles. 

But yeah, Erica, you're absolutely right -- vaccines are high profit for many vets because each bottle does several shots but they have to buy in a certain quantity.  When I used to help a lady vax feral cats in Key West the $18 bottle of rabies vax did 10 -20 cats, and syringes were like $.25 each so it cost $1-$2 to do a shot and we always thought about what that translated to when a vet sold those individually.

Remember tho, with rabies there is a TON of paperwork that goes with it, tags, accountability to the state, etc.  I've always been a bit surprised that rabies isn't more expensive than the other stuff.  (See anyone who vax's ferals like that - they aren't getting 'proveable' shots -- someone couldn't license them with those vaccines, it's just literally for their protection.

Nope - Rabies is actually the CHEAPEST shot out there. I recently did a 'what's that costing us' sheet for everything we do at work. We use Rabdomun 3 year vaccines, and the cost for one vile comes to just barely over $1.

To get your liscence, in my county, it's $8 for 1 year, of $20 for 3 years. Our county vet is very pro-3 year vaccines, which is nice.

mudpuppy

There may or may not be a very remote risk of over-stimulating the immune system with vaccines and inducing an autoimmune disease in some dogs- this theory has never been proven in any species

Well, there must be a very strong correlation being seen by vets.  Because the first thing my vet told me after Willow was diagnosed this summer was no more vaccines for her and she then strongly said, "ever".  She even went as far to say that if I ever switched vets the new vet would need to know this history and that they shouldn't vaccinate.  And, this is just a traditional vet, not holistic. 

Either way, I've don't need it proven to know that I'm not going to chance loosing my dog again after I almost did once and am spending the next six trying to get her back from it. 

I really hope people consider that it COULD be the vaccines causing immune system problems in dogs and not pretend like it's not happening because it hasn't been "proven". 

I never thought my dog would get such a serious illness, I was blindsided by it.  And, her body and her beautiful fur have been ruined by this treatment to save her life and for what, for vaccines for diseases that she probably would of been just find without--how many 10 year old dogs come down with distemper or corona virus!!???  I've never in my life have heard of it happening.  I thought I was doing the right thing by her though, now I just regret it. 

mudpuppy

Generally the body has to be exposed several times over a period of time in order for the immunity to become strong and persistent- thus the need to ensure the dog gets that one-year-old booster.

Immunity developed from small viral doses (too small to cause disease) in the environment works that way, but why conclude that vaccines work that way?  Compared to the environment, vaccines give large viral doses and are designed to generate large, relatively quick responses.

mudpuppy

no, in order for your dog to be safe you HAVE TO do the one year booster with all the key vaccines

You state this as a strong absolute.  If one uses MLV (modified live vaccines) and the dog has high titers at one year, why is a one year booster necessary?  Can you point me toward a study?

I am familar with the "secondary" or "anamnestic" response (see 2nd link below).  However, this secondary response can be (but is not always) induced by the last puppy shot.  It can also be induced by a walk through a dog park - especially for Parvo.  Such a walk is a good idea before titers are done.

mudpuppy

A vaccine stimulates the immune system to form antibodies against the disease in question without giving the dog the disease. It's not hard on the body- your body makes antibodies against things you get exposed to practically every day. 

Yes, environmental exposure to diseases causes the body to develop antibodies.  However, it would be highly unusual for the environment to put a virus directly into body tissues along with a bunch of chemicals.  The odds again the natural introduction of multiple such viruses into the body at the same time is astronomical.

Try telling any mother whose child is running a fever after a vaccine that the vaccine is not hard on the body!! 

mudpuppy

The dog may be sore for a few days after a booster shot- this is good, it means the dog's puppy shots "took" and the dog's body was able to immediately gear up an immune reaction.

I sure wouldn't jump to this conclusion.  A dog can also be sore because the injection was given wrong, the fluid from the injection put pressure on a nerve, or the chemicals in the shot caused a local irritation.  Rubbing the injection site immediately after the shot to disperse the fluid can often minimize soreness - at least that is what vets have told me.

mudpuppy

After a vaccination other dogs are perfectly safe from your dog.

After an MLV shot any dog without adequate protection can shed the virus.  However, the virus is incapable of producing disease.

mudpuppy

There may or may not be a very remote risk of over-stimulating the immune system with vaccines and inducing an autoimmune disease in some dogs- this theory has never been proven in any species.

It may not be proven, but there is strong evidence (Purdue study) that vaccines can do more than just create antibodies against a disease.  See 3rd & 4th links below.

• Vaccine Production & Types of Vaccines for Dogs
• How Vaccines Work
• Rabies vaccine increases (thyroid) antibodies, study shows
• Vaccine-Induced Autoimmunity in the Dog - Purdue   (just read the conclusion at the bottom)