Ron, Electrical help plz...

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    Ron, Electrical help plz...

     Or anyone that would know...

    My stove keeps blowing fuses...and now the elements have just gone completely.  I only have one working element left on my stove and my oven quit as well.  The stove is not that old.   Though it is not new either.  I've changed the fuses as they have gone, and even that won't fix it now.  My dad says it has something to do with the power.  Apparently Bucci, the landlord of the park has split the power up to go to more lots than should be?  Or something along those lines.  Anyway, he says that the stove is not getting enough power and that is why the elements are going.  Does that make sense?  He says what Bucci is doing is illegal.  I pay  my own Electric bill.   Do you think its something I should bring to the attention of the Electric company?  And if I get a new stove will the same thing happen?  I understand woodworking, I'm getting better with plumbing, I can do some basic mechanics, even weld a bit, but Electrical stuff is not part of my repetoire as of yet.  Help.

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    I don't know anything about it either, but I think I'd call the electric company and tell them the situation.  They'll most likely be willing to come out and check and if there's anything illegal going on they'll be able to spot it.

    Joyce

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    Multi-tapping (what your landlord is doing)  decreases the amount of current available to each tap every time he does that. Essentially, he is creating parallel circuits. Voltage is the same, total power is the same, but current is different in each branch. Distance of wire makes a difference, too. Let's say his original service was for 200 amps. A tap goes to his house. A tap goes to your house, which is farther away. His circuit presents less resistance because of less wire length. Yours has to carry all that way because of longer wire. You get losses (I^2R).

    Let's say that your stove/oven is an average 8.5kW. I don't know about Canada's feed but let's pretend it's the same as our residential feed, 240 V 1 phase, two hots, neutral, and ground. The 8.5 kW oven/stove will require smidge over 35 amps. So, It should be at least on a two pole 40 breaker or fuse. I take it you have an old load center that uses screw-in fuses.

    Anyway, the oven is trying to produce 8.5 kW, whether it's receiving a full 35 amps or not. First off, you might check and see of the fuses that feed your oven are big enough to handle the load. The oven should have a nameplate somewhere, probably on the back, that tells you the voltage and FLA (full load amperage).

    What your landlord is doing is illegal in the States. If the power company finds out, they will come out and make him pay for the extra tap, but then, they might be able to solve your problem by requiring him to upgrade the wire going to your place. This would most likely mean larger wire which could carry the calculated load of your residence, much easier.

    Fuses blow in order to protect equipment and wire. Wire can get too hot trying to carry a demand greater than it's capacity.

    I'll have to answer more, later.

     

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     Thanks Ron.  I think I understand a little better now.  I also talked to my mom today and she told me that when my Nanny used to live here, she always had problems with her stove as well.  If she used all of her elements at the same time, fuses would start to blow.  So that makes sense, since I assume the more elements you use, the more power the stove needs. 

    And so, perhaps a gas stove would be more practical.  I think I will contact Hydro and see what they have to say, but I doubt Bucci will update much.  He's a major slacker.  Anyway, I wouldn't think installing a gas stove would be too difficult since my kitchen is right in the same area as the gas comes it.  I just have to figure out who would be the person to call to do that.  The gas company?  My dad knows the guy, he'll ask.  He also has a gas stove I can use until I can afford a nice one.

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    I don't know how it is in Canada, but here anything to do with gas means we call a plumber. I had to call the plumber to install my gas stove, but as with most gas appliances there's also an electrical connection ... so when the plumber was finished, I had to call the electrician.

    Joyce

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    Really?!  How Bizarre! 

    I guess remodeling my kitchen at that point rather than waiting, might be a good idea.  

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    More thoughts. With power dips due to various demands on the system, the coils on an electric stove might be cooling and heating more often, which uses up their lifetime, not to mention the demand on the system drawing too much through the fuses. If you can get a gas oven, your problems are solved. A modern gas oven/stove uses an electric ignitor. At 120 V 1 phase, it takes a few microamps (1 to 5/100 of 1 amp) to ignite. So, while you call a gas plumber, if necessary, also check to make sure you have a plug behind there. Modern gas ovens have an appliance cord (we call them pigtails) that plug into a regular plug. This provides a small amount of electricity for the ignitors and any digital controls.

    My house has a gas oven/stove and it's easy to cook on and you have much greater control over temperature with gas. You turn the flame down, the temp drops immediately. With eletric stoves or ovens, it takes a while for coils to cool down or heat up.

    This makes better sense than putting in bigger fuses. If you're drawing too much through the wire, it can be a hazard because excess heat degrades the wire insulation faster.

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     Okay.  I think thats what I'll do.  I thought that gas stoves were way more money than electric ones, but I've been looking and they don't seem to be, other than I could get a cheapo electric and there doesn't seem to be a cheapo gas one.  Doesn't matter though, I don't like cheap stuff.

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    Ron's right (well, of course he is, but I've experienced this myself).  We had something odd happening with our wiring that meant our stoves were doing the same thing - blowing out.  But the first thing that happened was the Jenn-Aire that we inherited with the house, literally blew up.  The element melted and started arcing and that was probably the #1 scariest thing that has EVER happened to me, and I drove my car off an embankment and that wasn't nearly that scary.

    I had something almost as dramatic happen with a successor to that stove, and that's when I called my friend who was an electrician.  He found something goofy that the DIYers who owned the home had done while updating the wiring.  

    Moral of the story is:  I don't consider anything to do with electricity to be in the realm of DIY.  Nothing major, I mean. 

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    huskymom

     Okay.  I think thats what I'll do.  I thought that gas stoves were way more money than electric ones, but I've been looking and they don't seem to be, other than I could get a cheapo electric and there doesn't seem to be a cheapo gas one.  Doesn't matter though, I don't like cheap stuff.

    Good point. And if you buy what you want one time, it will last you a long time. I think gas ovens last longer. At most, you might replace the pot stands or grates that go over the burners.

    DW grew up cooking on gas and prefers it. And, I must say, we cook a lot more since we moved into this house. It's so quick and easy to cook on gas. And, considering you are probably in an old house if it still uses screw fuses (museum pieces to us in the trade), then it is also safer to use gas.

     

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    ron2

     A modern gas oven/stove uses an electric ignitor. At 120 V 1 phase, it takes a few microamps (1 to 5/100 of 1 amp) to ignite. So, while you call a gas plumber, if necessary, also check to make sure you have a plug behind there. Modern gas ovens have an appliance cord (we call them pigtails) that plug into a regular plug. This provides a small amount of electricity for the ignitors and any digital controls.

    Good points. Big Smile The counter where my cooktop is backs up to nothing but the space  between the kitchen and the dining room.  With the old cooktop, that wasn't a problem. The new one however had the danged appliance cord and there was really no place to plug it in.  Enter my creative electrician who ran one of those super heavy metal looking cords through the bottom cabinets, around the corner under the sink and behind the dishwasher so it could plug in behind the refrigerator. If you don't have an outlet right where you need one, the electrician can most likely figure out a way to get it plugged in somewhere else for you even if he has to make you a new outlet.

    Joyce

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    fuzzy_dogs_mom
    Enter my creative electrician who ran one of those super heavy metal looking cords through the bottom cabinets

    Sounds like he ran MC or flex.  MC already has wire in it and will probably be 12-2 (AWG 12, 2 conductors, not including the ground wire). Flex is no smaller than 1/2 inch, usually, but you can put different sizes of wire in it. Another way is if there is a plug facing into the dining room that is in the same stud space as where you need the plug in kitchen. I've had lucky spots like that and I just jump a piece of NMC (usually called romex, which is a brand name) into a cut-in box. Although, having the advantage of a plug makes it easy for a plumber to disconnect power, there is the option of wiring direct (branch to connection, btc). Sounds like friend did a good thing and it certainly solved the problem right away.