Sarah Palin ~ Unbelievable!

Cita

Palin is a "blank canvas" that will be painted by the current Republican Party to represent whatever they think will sell best to the American people. Not necessarily what they think is best for the country, but what they think will sell.

I agree 110%. I believe that she was chosen by McCain and his cronies for that exact reason AND the fact that she is a woman! They are betting on the women of this country voting for her simply because she can, and does, wear her hair in an updo! That's scary. If they win we ARE in for more Republican nonsense and I'm sick of it. Sure, she's attractive, but that's where the appeal ends.....for me.

cyclefiend2000

"Barack Obama has missed 291 votes (45.5%) during the current Congress."

 http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/o000167/

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/o000167/votes/missed/

http://obama.senate.gov/votes/index.cfm?start=1

on abortion issues he has not cast a vote in 3 out of 4 votes....

http://www.votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=9490

edit: "John McCain missed 733 (18%) of 4099 votes since Feb 4, 1993."

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/person.xpd?id=300071

If your going to hold Obama to the current congress votes, then we must do the same with McCain:

John McCain has missed 408 votes (63.8%) during the current Congress. See a list of his missed votes since 1991 or see a full list of vote missers

source:

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/m000303/

If your going to hold Obama to the current congress votes, then we must do the same with McCain

i have just been trying to figure out where bho got all his experience all of a sudden... out of 3 yrs in washington, he has missed most of this year. 

I understand, but this is a thread about Sarah........want to start another political thread??

Im game!

 my response was a direct response to another post on this very thread.

I don't actually think abortion is the main issue for people.  I think it has become sort of a "poster child" issue ... an example of what could happen if the extreme right wing gets too much power. For me personally, it's not going to be an issue.  If Roe vs Wade gets overturned, the states will decide for themselves and I'm pretty sure which way CA will go.  I just hate to think of a poor woman, a victim of incest or rape, having to figure out how to get to another state if she feels abortion is the right answer for her.

Joyce

dgriego

even if RvW was overturned the states would set their own laws and in most cases nothing would change except maybe I would no longer have to pay for your choice.

"in most cases nothing would change"??    May I ask what you base this statement on?  

[Do note that reproductive rights are a major economic issue for women and a major international issue for women.]

The anti-choice extremists have worked for years to get state laws as severe as possible.  Some (or parts) of those laws are unenforceable due to Roe v Wade.  Lawmakers could "safely" please some of their constituents by voting for such laws knowing that the law could not be enforced and thereby anger other constituents.

Other laws have been designed to drive up the cost of an abortion, to restrict/eliminate access for low-income women, and to reduce the availability of abortion clinics/providers. 

Some current state law statistics:

• 7 states have laws that make the protections of Roe v. Wade permanent in state law
• 15 states have unconstitutional and unenforceable near-total criminal bans on abortion
• 23 states have unconstitutional and unenforceable bans that could outlaw abortion as early as the 12th week of pregnancy, with no exception to protect a woman's health
• 9 states have unconstitutional and unenforceable laws that require women to obtain the written consent from, or give notice to, her husband prior to receiving abortion care  (Aside:  This is a good way to reduce the number of marriages.)
• 17 states and the federal government prohibit certain private, federal, and/or state funded insurance plans from covering abortion services
• 44 states and the District of Columbia have laws subjecting abortion providers to burdensome restrictions not applied to other medical professionals

Three of the federal issues:

• The current Supreme Court is allowing the states to erode Roe v Wade.
• Under federal law, no funds made available to the Department of Defense (DoD) may be used for abortion, except when a woman's life is in danger.  Federal law also states that women in the military (and military dependents) can not receive abortion services at Department of Defense medical facilities (including military facilities overseas) - even if the procedure is entirely paid for with a woman's own funds.  The only exceptions to this restriction are if the life of the woman would be endangered if the pregnancy were carried to term, or if the pregnancy is the result of an act of rape or incest.  Want to be a pregnant U.S. military woman in a 3rd world country?
• The global gag rule – reimposed on January 22, 2001 by President George W. Bush – prohibits the granting of U.S. funds to any overseas health clinic unless it agrees not to use its own, private, non-U.S. funds for: (1) abortion services, (2) abortion-related advocacy, or (3) abortion counseling or referrals.  Want to be a pregnant woman overseas who will die because her clinic won't abort the pregnancy due to fear of losing their funding?

President Bush has canceled funding altogether for the United Nations Population Fund.  This ignores the fact that access to international family-planning services is one of the most effective means of reducing the need for abortion.  This makes the U.S. look stupid and hypocritical to other countries.

P.S.  If a woman can't afford and doesn't get an abortion, the public winds up paying for the delivery, neonatal care, infant care, etc.  If using public funds at all is the issue, an abortion usually costs less.  If using public funds on something one doesn't approve of is the issue, I don't approve of bombs, but I still have to help pay for them. 

What ever happened to, if you don't want to get pregnant, don't do anything that can get you pregnant?  Take some responsibility for your behavior.  I didn't want to get pregnant before I was married and DH and I lived together for 3 years before we were married and we did not have sex.  It's called self control.  Just because I was taught that you wait for marriage, didn't mean I didn't know about BC, condoms...etc.  Our local NBC news just went and did a segment at a high school with a dozen girls who had their babies at school.  They questioned if they had any sex education, every single one of them did.  I don't think they got the story they were hoping for.  I would also like to see where Palin said she would try to ban the right to choose.  She has not said that. 

 http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Sarah_Palin_Abortion.htm

Furthermore, why is it soooooo terrible to shoot a wolf, so humans can hunt, for food or otherwise but it is perfectly okay to partially deliver a baby and slit it's neck open and suction out it's brains??????  And yes, Obama is open to partial birth abortion.  That's the one thing I'll never understand about democrats, save the whales, save the trees, but kill the babies.

I am not at all convinced that sex education is schools is making more of a difference than abstinence only. My kids were taught about birth control in school and there is a high teen pregnancy rate in my area right now. I do get a letter from the school so I can opt out of having my kids go to these classes.  I figure no harm done, they will learn it at home too. I do like that I am notified first hand as I do think it should be the parents choice of what they are taught about sex..

Sarah Palin is not against birth control. In my opinion there is VERY rarely an accidental pregnancy. There are so many ways to prevent it that if you really don't want to have a baby  you won't get pregnant. (not talking rape or incest). Abortion really is not on my radar this election, there are way too many issues I think need to be addressed first. I really don't think abortion will be abolished in the future no matter who gets elected anyway.

I find Palen more honest than Biden, the more I read about him the more I distrust him. As for McCain and Obama, I have issues with both, but Obama I think is under qualified to be president, vice president OK. I also detest the people he associates with and I don't think he has the love and welfare for America that at least McCain has.

dubilpie

I find Palen more honest than Biden, the more I read about him the more I distrust him. As for McCain and Obama, I have issues with both, but Obama I think is under qualified to be president, vice president OK. I also detest the people he associates with and I don't think he has the love and welfare for America that at least McCain has.

My problem with Palin is that she is a religious extremist.  I think a lot of female independents and democrats like her now because they feel they can relate to her, but when her stances on the issues come out I think it will change.  If Palin had things her way, women would lose their reproductive rights, sex education would be gone, creationism would be taught in schools over evolution and stem cell research would be banned.  All of these things would bring our country back 50 years intellectually and scientifically while the rest of the advanced western world progresses.  I find her views to be an embarrassment to the civilized world.

jenns

My problem with Palin is that she is a religious extremist.  I think a lot of female independents and democrats like her now because they feel they can relate to her, but when her stances on the issues come out I think it will change.  If Palin had things her way, women would lose their reproductive rights, sex education would be gone, creationism would be taught in schools over evolution and stem cell research would be banned.  All of these things would bring our country back 50 years intellectually and scientifically while the rest of the advanced western world progresses.  I find her views to be an embarrassment to the civilized world.

Now, hang on a minute and do a little more research: http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/sliming_palin.html.  This is a great website for looking into allegations about any of the candidates.

And here is a link with actual Q&A with Palin about her stances on women's reproductive rights: http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Sarah_Palin_Abortion.htm

I will go on record as saying I am pro-choice, and this one issue does not rank high enough for me to not vote for McCain-Palin (and I WILL vote for them), but she is not as much as a hard-butt on this issue as a lot of folks think that she is.

The mod has asked us to remember that we are here to learn.

Actually, I had type up another reply and just deleted it.

If Palin's honest personal beliefs are going to weigh more than the value she can bring to our energy policy and foreign policy, I am having a hard time getting on the same page.

I don't think Palin has the pull or power to overturn Roe vs Wade, which survived may administrations since 1973. Including candidates vocally against it.

jenn52

What ever happened to, if you don't want to get pregnant, don't do anything that can get you pregnant?  Take some responsibility for your behavior. 

I definitely agree that prevention is the best course of action to prevent an abortion.  Sometimes life just doesn't cooperate - rape, incest, contraceptive failure, defective fetus, maternal health problems, etc.

Personally I could never abort a normal fetus that I was capable of carrying.  However, that was my choice and I am too old now for it to be an issue.  I never had to deal with rape or incest - thank goodness!

jenn52

Our local NBC news just went and did a segment at a high school with a dozen girls who had their babies at school.  They questioned if they had any sex education, every single one of them did. 

There is good sex education and poor sex education.  There are good parental values and poor parental values.  There is good parental supervision and poor parental supervision.  One can draw no conclusions from querying one group of 12 young mothers.

jenn52

And yes, Obama is open to partial birth abortion. 

Assuming that the abortion is legal to begin with, what makes one technique for terminating the fetus better than another?  The goals should be no pain for the fetus and a minimum of trauma for the woman.  

A quick stab into the brain from the base of the neck is a very quick and painless way to kill a human being - even an adult.  Sucking out the brain matter of the fetus allows a reduction in the head size for an easier expulsion of the intact fetus.  These two actions (accomplished when only the head remains in the uterus) are what most people call a "partial birth abortion", but that is strictly a political term.  It is NOT a term used by the medical community.

Reasons for this "partial birth abortion" might include:

• avoiding a C-section in the case of an oversized fetal head  -or-
• minimizing the trauma of fetal expulsion when the woman is fighting for her life

The federal, political definition of "partial birth abortion" is actually much broader than the two actions above.

An abortion in which the person performing the abortion, deliberately and intentionally vaginally delivers a living fetus until, in the case of a head-first presentation, the entire fetal head is outside the body of the mother, or, in the case of breech presentation, any part of the fetal trunk past the navel is outside the body of the mother, for the purpose of performing an overt act that the person knows will kill the partially delivered living fetus; and performs the overt act, other than completion of delivery, that kills the partially delivered living fetus. (18 U.S. Code 1531)

As a result of the "partial birth abortion ban", many abortion providers have adopted the practice of injecting the fetus with lethal drugs before all late-term abortions.  That avoids any possible problems with the ban, since the law only applies to a living fetus.

Nothing has really changed.  The fetus is just dead before surgery starts, rather than dying painlessly during the procedure. 

Even though I am pro-choice, I have a very hard time supporting partial-birth abortions.  I listened to an interview last week with a nurse who told first-hand accounts of babies surviving such procedures (born still breathing), which were then left in a room to die.  I'm sorry, but this is just plain cruel.  Unless a procedure is 100% fail-safe, I cannot get on board with this.

I also have a very close friend who, at the age of 16, underwent a partial-birth abortion.  She was extremely traumatized by the procedure, and was actually forced into it by her parents.  I will never forget the day she opened up to me and told me about it, with tears streaming down both of our faces.  I would not wish such pain on anyone.