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Ya know, walks are for THEM, not for me.  I don't ask for a perfect heal when we walk on lead.  I ask for one now and then just for practice, but for the most part, so long as they aren't pulling or acting like fools, I don't care.  I walk three of the shepherds at a time, in carefully selected groups for maximum compliance [] so I do need them to respond to my requests, but I really don't care who is where, so long as they aren't crossing in front of me or jerking the shoulders out of the sockets.  When I lowered my expectations my enjoyment of the walk increased dramatically.

i love walking my dog, and i have a beagle! haha talk about sniffing. ive never minded that she sniff while im walking her, i mean shes a scent hound, its what she does.
 
but im fortunate enough to have a forest with trails through it behind my house, and i walk her in there....off leash, so she can run and sniff to her hearts content! i love seeing her running through the forest sniffing things, acting silly. she always stays within my sites, and whenever she goes to far i call her in. treats as a reward are the way i taught her to come when i called. she is extremly food motivated, which i dont think is a bad thing. when i get to the end of the trail and have to walk on the road, i call her, she comes running, sits at my feet and waits for a treat, then i leash her and we go home.

ORIGINAL: Luvntzus

ORIGINAL: mudpuppy

I think you need to go talk to a trainer. If your dog still isn't trained after two years you're clearly not doing it right.

So once dogs are trained they never need reminders? Do your dogs walk perfectly on the leash every time?

And they aren't "food bribes". It's a reward. The dog doesn't see the treat or even know it exists before obeying.

LOL! They can smell whether I have the treats or not. I still don't see how it's not a bribe for doing what I want.

Some dogs need the occasional reminder.  After all, their primary sense is smell and the world is full of interesting things to smell.  But, if you don't understand how to use food without having it become a bribe, then you probably should take mudpuppy's suggestion and get some training in how to use reinforcement correctly.
That said,. some folks are happier just managing the dog than worrying about the walk every step of the way.  You could simply put the dog in an Easy Walk Harness (so you aren't having your arm pulled out of its socket) and just relax about where the dog walks or whether he sniffs a hydrant now and then.

In my house, we have good days, and we have bad days.  For me, as with some other posters, "walkies" and "training" are a lot different.  The training walks are done with a flat collar and are highly regimented, short, and with clicks and such, and YES they are a PITA.  As much as I want my dogs to progress, there are days when training is not at the top of my list.
 
As far as "walking" for excersise, I actually quite enjoy this most of the time.  I walk the same general area most days, and I been able to be mindful of our surroundings and who and what may be approaching without losing my mind.  There are times, like today, when an unfortunate and unforseeable incident upsets the balance of the walk for quite a while, and on those days I have to weight whether it's worth it to continue the walk.  Tek is a "fast walker" and Rosie is a "dragger", especially now that her leg is clearly bothering her a bit.  I split the difference between them and sometimes I just have to take Rosie home early.  I let them sniff and mark and investigate.  They just don't get to decide where we go[].  I have a "this way" command, and we are working on "right" and "left" with Tek since he's out in front.  My dogs are only required to heel on a fun walk when we approach people or other dogs.
 
I have tried walking with them in a Heel at all times.  It was a constant struggle and I think the walk actually built up more anxiety than it helped alleviate.  Never again.

there have been times in the 18 months that we have had Bugsy that I have been fed up with walking him.  He is a powerful, fast, hunting, tracking, independent and intense dog.  Love him to bits but walking has been difficult to get to an agreeable stage with him. And don't get me wrong I love to walk and he does too.
I fear I will jinx myself as we have been on good streaks for a while but as he nears 2 by jove I think he's got it!
We have used the a 2 foot lead with a prong collar, gentle leader harness, sporn harness and he has been to obedience.  he can walk at a heel - but if he didn't want to NOTHING was going to change that.

I do think that part of the success now is that I realized that his morning walk is like his 'work'.  He has always loved to get into a nice trot, always stays on my left, and he is in front mostly because I now realize that he is in a focused state doing his job.  He is finally on a 4 ft lead and we are using mostly the gentle leader harness.  The lead is now slack (YEA!!  [sm=dance.gif] ), he has always responded to 'enough' when he gets stuck in sniffing but in general he just wants to keep moving.  he still stalks the squirrels and rabbits and now that we go before breakfast the birds too (think steaming drumstick from the cartoons!)  But we have a language to keep him moving and to keep him from the pounce.

So may be you just need to turn some corner with them - thats what feels like happened for me.  Regardless of his 'bad' days I always wanted to walk him but I'm sure we are both enjoying it now, everyday!

We still have some work to do with regard to deer as we saw some the other day and I nearly went for a close visit []

another thing that is good is a backpack - when he wears his he is less likely to sniff and he is less likely to hunt - he does want to go even faster though [8D]

My dogs are allowed to walk ahead of me if they choose, as long as they aren't yanking or pulling. I don't feel that they at all disrespect me. If I ask for them to stop and wait with me, they do. If I ask them to 'leave it' when I dont' want them sniffing something, they comply.  I also throw some 'waits' in at corners, and sometimes a 'sit and wait', when need be.  The walks are for both of our enjoyments and I see no need for them to be stuck to my side.
 
I don't tolerate pulling though, it's a solid way for us to turn around and come straight home. []

I love walking because it makes Trudy so happy. I get no exer. with her. She is not a fast walker, but she loves to smell and look around and stop to get etted by neighbors.    

ORIGINAL: paulaedwina

I don't share your belief that somehow my dog is being disrespectful because he isn't paying attention to me on a walk and that's a bad thing. It's a walk. Why the power trip (sounds like when you say you feel they should be following you)? What does respect have to do with it?

It's not a power trip. [&o] It's everything I've learned about dogs and that they should be walking beside you, not leading you.

There's so much conflicting information out there and it's confusing. []

ORIGINAL: spiritdogs

But, if you don't understand how to use food without having it become a bribe, then you probably should take mudpuppy's suggestion and get some training in how to use reinforcement correctly.

The thing is, to me, it's a bribe no matter how it's delivered. Once the dog makes the connection that paying attention and staying close gets him treats, it'll increase him staying close in order to get the treat. So he's staying close because he wants that treat, not because he wants to be with me.

That said,. some folks are happier just managing the dog than worrying about the walk every step of the way.  You could simply put the dog in an Easy Walk Harness (so you aren't having your arm pulled out of its socket) and just relax about where the dog walks or whether he sniffs a hydrant now and then.

The thing is, Gingerbread does NOT pull my arm out of the socket. Ever. Like I said, if he feels the slightest pressure on the leash he slows down and looks up at me. The thing is, I have to keep stopping whenever I feel the leash pressure or else it'll become more frequent and the pulling will become harder.

It sounds like I do need to get rid of some of the rules and let them stop and sniff. That definitely will make things more enjoyable for all of us.

As much as I love my dogs, I dread walking them!  Rocky is a very hyper dog when he is on a leash.  I cannot keep up with him!  Brownie does pretty good but she, like I, tires out really easy, and Dipstick still doesn't like to be on a leash.  He is almost 7 months old and at times, I cannot get him moving on the leash.  Now for the truth...  Most times I don't walk them.  I have 2 acres of my yard fenced in and I just go out side and run around the yard with them!  They like it.  I'll also hit a baseball for them to chase.  Our road is dangerous and I fear that someone will hit us.  It's a dirt road but these people out her still drive like 60+MPH on it.

Max sometimes walks ahead, sometimes to the side so he can sniff and explore.  It's taking a lot longer to get around the loop these days because not only do we have to stop at every tree to pee, we have to stop at every tree to look for those silly squirrellys. []  We've been going without the prong for the last few days (it's such a PITA to put on and take off) and he's doing much better than I thought he would with the flat collar. When he gets a treat, he gets all excited and happy and starts to walk faster ... faster than me, unfortunately ... so I have to kind of reel him back in with a "stay with me" and he does better.  But yeah, I know what you mean.  Sometimes I have to force myself out the door and this week the temps are supposed to hit triple digits.
 
Joyce

I definately don't care where they walk, just that they are not pulling and are giving me attention when asked. I'm their leader in a zillion other ways, they don't have to like physically follow me when physically walking for that to be the case. I decide when we walk, where we walk, how long we walk, how much they eat, when they eat, where they sleep, for how long, etc etc etc. But they have four legs instead of two and can move a lot faster than me, and they have noses several thousands of times more sensitive than mine. These are just physiological facts that make it very very difficult for me to demand that they walk at my pace and with their heads up staring lovingly at me while out in the big, interesting, smelly world.

Marlowe was a ridiculous surfer originally (I'm not sure he'd ever been walked on a leash before, at the age of 2 when we adopted him!) and also lunged at prey animals (squirrels, which were everywhere, it being late spring/early summer at the time). We walked the dogs seperately until we could get him squared away. He walks like an absolute dream now and in fact when I'm walking with a friend I always give the friend Marlowe to walk becuase he's easier to handle than Conrad even. It was all about developing a respect/trust relationship (that went both ways--he has to know that I also respect him as much as he respects me)  with him and plenty of rewards for giving me attention and walking nicely. And rest assured, we don't give food treats for that any more. It's called a variable schedule of reinforcement and it's how you get from a treat every time a behavior is performed to a treat very infrequently at random intervals and situations (every now and then, like every few weeks or couple of months, a great treat will appear for the performance of a behavior they already learned and do every time I ask--it keeps them guessing). And I don't really care why the dog is doing a behavior. I don't need him to "respect my authoritah" I just need him to be safe and obedient in the human world, because he doens't understand it well enough to act instinctually as a dog and be okay.

But they'll always be scenthounds. Always. They'll always be hunters to the core and driven to explore the world with their noses. And that's fine. As long as when I shorten the leashes and say "let's go" they stop sniffing and get a move on, and they don't pull me this way and that to sniff. We can typically be found walking at a good clip, but they have their noses skittering across the gorund (how do they not bump them constantly? it's a mystery).

Walks are for them, not me. I'm actually kind of lazy and if it were up to me we wouldn't be walking so dang much.  

I threw out all the rules with Ben, too. I'm sorry, but getting him to walk at a heel all the time was frustrating, infuriating and generally made walks horrible - for both of us. He is 1000 times better behaved if he's out in front of me, sniffing and wandering. My only *constant* rule is no pulling - if he gets to the end of the leash, I stop dead and don't continue until he backs up a little. That rarely happens these days, he knows he has as much freedom as the slack leash will allow and NO MORE. I actually find that having him out in front of me makes it easier for me to keep an eye on him; I don't find that looking down next to me while I'm walking is especially comfortable, personally.

Other rules come into play as and when they're needed. Like others here, Ben must move into a heel (even just a loose one) when we are approached by people and other dogs. He is also never allowed to walk into the road ahead of me. If we need to stop to cross the street, he is trained to halt at the curb and sit until I give him an "okay".

Walks are Ben's "fun time". He spends the majority of the day chilling out at my feet while I work, or alone if I need to go out, so he deserves the opportunity to sniff and wander to his heart's content when we go out. Admittedly, Ben's on-leash walks last to and from the park where he gets let off leash, but that still accounts for a hefty portion of the actual walking we do, and it needs to not be a chore.

In making the walk more fun for Ben by appealing to his base instincts, it made the walks more fun for both of us. Ben knows I am his leader because he knows that I am the one allowing him out in front of me. I could choose not to do that if I wanted to, so I don't find a heel necessary to enforce my status.

ORIGINAL: houndlove

But they have four legs instead of two and can move a lot faster than me, and they have noses several thousands of times more sensitive than mine. These are just physiological facts that make it very very difficult for me to demand that they walk at my pace and with their heads up staring lovingly at me while out in the big, interesting, smelly world.

Those are really good points. My expectations were just waaay too high and that was leading to a lot of frustration.

I think it's sad you don't enjoy walking your dog. I own dogs primarily to have company on walks.

 
 
Bingo, that is how I feel........the dogs and I exploring is a wonderful time for all of us.....

ORIGINAL: snownose

I think it's sad you don't enjoy walking your dog. I own dogs primarily to have company on walks.

Bingo, that is how I feel........the dogs and I exploring is a wonderful time for all of us.....

Well, things are okay now so no need to feel sorry for me.