Anyone use a Bark Collar?

can't believe that you would quote an article form NAIA, and expect me to believe that it is the least bit concerned about the rights and well being of animals. This is an organization is that has as it's top two officers, a Lawyer from the Circus, and a Cattle Rancher.... Now there are two animal lovers that any pet owner could trust........LOL

 
That article was written by Charlotte McGowan a very highly respected person in the Sheltie community.  Anyway what is wrong with cattle ranchers or the circus.  Anyway I would trust them before anyone that believes in one generation and they are gone.
 

don't know. Two have multiple MACH dogs, one of them has multiple OTCHs as well. So, yes, I'd say they know how to train. They simply find that it is more humane, in their opinion, to debark, and less harmful to the dog than the significant aversives. With dogs who find barking so self-reinforcing, it IS sometimes the only option.

 
I have a dog with multiple Mach's and another with 15 or so agility titles so I guess I don't know how to train either.
 

Cutting vocal cords is a single surgery, and painless once it's healed- and it heals quickly. It's a TINY incision, and they tell me they've seen NO complications- ever- even in dogs doing high-demand jobs that they COULD NOT DO with decreased respiratory function- versus keeping a bark collar on teh dog for the rest of their life?

Gee, you can guess which one I'd prefer?

I don't understand why anyone would not want to use a bark collar, which usually results in the dog cured of the barking problem almost immediately, but instead  have their dog's vocal chords cut .

The collar does not cure the problem.  The problem is GONE when the dog can go outside collarless and not bark.  Most people don't bother with that.  They just slap the collar on the dog every single time the dog goes out, and the dog doesn't bark.
 
The dog hasn't learned not to bark...he's simply learned not to bark when the collar is on.  Big difference.
 

Cutting the dogs vocal chords is not aversive, but a bark collar is......?????????? Unreal.....

Cutting the chords is aversive to you not to the dog.  In order for it to be an aversive to the dog, the dog has to be aware of it, and I highly doubt the dog is aware that it's vocal chords were altered, as the dog continues to bark...just not as loudly.  Aversives imply that there was a learning experience invovled....there's no learning experience involved for the dog as it is put under anaesthesia.

ORIGINAL: Pwca

Cutting vocal cords is a single surgery, and painless once it's healed- and it heals quickly. It's a TINY incision, and they tell me they've seen NO complications- ever- even in dogs doing high-demand jobs that they COULD NOT DO with decreased respiratory function- versus keeping a bark collar on teh dog for the rest of their life?

Gee, you can guess which one I'd prefer?

First of all, you don't have to keep the collar on for the rest of the dogs life. I know several people taht have used the collars for a couple of weeks, and that cured the barking problem.   Anyone that tells you that they have seen no problems with this surgery is full of it, in my opinion. 

ORIGINAL: Xeph

Cutting the dogs vocal chords is not aversive, but a bark collar is......?????????? Unreal.....

Cutting the chords is aversive to you not to the dog.  In order for it to be an aversive to the dog, the dog has to be aware of it, and I highly doubt the dog is aware that it's vocal chords were altered, as the dog continues to bark...just not as loudly.  Aversives imply that there was a learning experience invovled....there's no learning experience involved for the dog as it is put under anaesthesia.

That is simply not true for many dogs. The several dogs that I have seen  totally lose the ability to bark at all, and make a wheezing sound instead. When the Vet at the shelter sees a debarked dog come in, he just shakes his head with a disgusted look on his face. 

Anyone that tells you that they have seen no problems with this surgery is full of it, in my opinion.

 
Ok I guess I am full of it because I never have seen any problems with any dog that has had the surgery.
 
So the dog never barks after wearing the collar for a couple of weeks?  What would prevent the dog from barking if it isn't wearing the collar??
 

Here's the thing, though. Debarking is like anything else. For every right way to do it, there are 100 wrong ways. I once read a story about a puppy auction where debarking was offered, on the spot. The puppies to be debarked were done without anesthesia or pain meds, by ramming a pipe down their throats, and breaking their larynxes. I'm sure that *many* dogs done that way have serious problems.

Done of the debarked dogs I've met have had an issue. They still barked thier happy heads off, but it was quieter. I've known a Pap, some Shleties, and a couple of Dachshunds that were debarked.

I have 2 perfect examples.  With Sassy, we tried the citronella collar and it worked beautifully.  She barked once or twice and that was it.  We can put it on her without even turning it on and she will not bark.  If she doesn't have it on and something sets her off (people walking by the fence too close), she will bark like crazy.  Our older dog, Buffy, blew right thru the citronella collar.  She learned to bark and run, so the scent wasn't near her.  She's one of the brightest dogs I've ever had.  We had to go with the shock collar, and even then, she still will test the limits of the collar.  I'd love not to have to use the collars and we can manage both dogs just fine when we're home, but after receiving a complaint from the neighbors, we had no recourse than to try the collars.

I USED the collars, but no longer do my dogs wear them.  They bark rarely at home, but Colton still barks at my mentors, but not too bad.  But, I also made sure to reward when he was quiet.  That is the important thing.  You can teach a dog what NOT to do all you want, but if you don't teach them the right way to do something, it will never get better.

Wow, what a heated debate! I've never really thought about debarking before, nor have I ever met a dog that's been debarked. I've heard that dogs who are debarked cough and wheeze, but I'm sure that it has to do with the skill of the veterinarian and I'm sure there are varying degrees to which they are "debarked".

My personal opinion on bark collars and debarking is that they are tools, not to be abused. Debarking is a surgery which needs to be done properly, just like any other sergury. I think ANY blanket statement like "Shock collars should NEVER be used!" or "Debarking is ALWAYS inhumane!" are completely illogical. Some people are never faced with situations which would warrant use of either of these things, so maybe to them it seems unreasonable. I've never considered bark collars or debarking because neither of my dogs has a serious barking problem (they both stop barking on command and don't bark constantly while I'm gone). I think if any one of you had a dog that barked just to hear itself bark (these dogs DO exist!) you would quickly change your tune when it came down to getting kicked out of your dwelling, having your dog sent to the shelter, or using a collar/debarking.

First I'd like to say that all bark collars are not evil.  I used one for about 2 weeks.  Not a zapper, but a tone generating one.  I spent a weekend training Xerxes with it.  I had gotten several complaints because of his barking, so I chose to use an anti bark collar.  No big deal.  After two weeks he learned that barking isn't the answer to his boredom when left at home.

A large percentage of my breed are debarked, I don't approve of it, but it's not my call.  These dogs LOVE the sound of their own voice.  And the barks are at the perfect tone to make you squirm.  When I say these dogs love to bark, I mean it seems almost as natural to them as breathing or eating.  Part of what they were bred for was to be alert and watchful over the family and to warn (from the rooftop) of anyone approaching.  They will bark reflexively even when you're scolding them to be quiet. 

 Xerxes can be heard outside the building on the ground floor even with all the doors and windows to the building secured.  If he sticks his head out of the cat door, he can disturb neighbors over 200 yards away.

So yes, I've used an anti bark collar, but I trained him for two days prior to leaving him alone with it, and he doesn't need it anymore.  These collars can be a valuable tool, if they are used correctly and the dog is trained to be quiet.

ORIGINAL: mudpuppy

estimates I've heard is that around 50% of debarked dogs have serious complications from the scar tissue a few years after the surgery, up to and including death.

Most dogs engage in nuisance barking because of owner's failure to meet the dog's needs, and treating the symptom does not help these dogs.

I haven't heard of many health complications from those that I know with de-barked dogs, however, Gaia was debarked as a puppy and her voice box healed partially-so she had a barky sound...but only one and that made it very difficult for her to communicate with other dogs.

And this is why I choose to live in the country......
 
My dogs do bark when they go outside, at first. They seem to need to make noise to reclaim their territory or something.  IF I tell them "quietly" they won't bark, but, since I do live in the boonies, well, who the heck are they disturbing?  We do still practice "QUIET" so we'll have it when and if we need it.
 
I can't say that I would NEVER use a bark collar because I have not been in a situation where it was essential.  Circumstances often force us to make choices we would rather not make.  The last month or so that we were living in town in the historic district was horrid.  The witch down the street would turn on her dog barking CD and blare it over her outdoor speakers and every dog in the neighborhood would start barking, and then she would call the cops on them.  Luckily the house was enormous because we had to let the dogs play INSIDE, and take them outside one at a time, stay with them and only let them be outside to potty.  It was a nightmare.  And when we had to be away, we'd put all the crates in the enormous livingroom, shut the house up and crank up the window unit AC and turn the radio on LOUD so that they couldn't hear anything from outside.  In that house we had huge heavy wooden pocket doors and it was a really old house built tough so we could insulate them from most of the outside sounds.  But, I could NOT relax and feel safe with my dogs home alone.  INSIDE the house....I had horrible visions of coming home to find that the cops had forced entry and seized them.
 
I could sit in the backyard with ONE quiet dog and almost guarentee to see a cop cruising the ally because the biddy called them....she apparently had nothing better to do than to watch out her second floor windows and wait to cause problems.  When we WERE moving to the country, we took the dogs out to the new house FIRST.....just to avoid the issues.  We moved the motor home out there for them to sleep in at nite, AC running full force, and my son spent the nights with them, then I was there during the day working on the new house.  Not an ideal situation, but gosh, better than having any of them seized for a single bark.  This lady was a real tool.  And she wanted us OUT because first we were lowly renters living in the hallowed Historic District and also because we had the nerve to post a political sign in opposition of what SHE wanted.  Any excuse would have been good enough.
 
Did I consider bark collars?  Yeah, in passing.  Couldn't afford them for so many dogs, and I could control behavior one on one in the yard, so I simply gave up any semblance of a normal life for the duration.  I don't believe that I would EVER consider debarking a viable option, but, I can't say I wouldn't since I've not been in a situation where it was debark or loose my dog........
 
In general, I would say debarking is not such a great idea, but there will always be exceptions. Same for the collars.

ORIGINAL: Xerxes

I haven't heard of many health complications from those that I know with de-barked dogs, however, Gaia was debarked as a puppy and her voice box healed partially-so she had a barky sound...but only one and that made it very difficult for her to communicate with other dogs.

Past tense? Did I miss something with Gaia?