Dog Community

Posted : 6/8/2007 10:53:51 AM

I've never had a dog that couldn't figure out

I know exactly what you mean. I first tried the spray collar with my girl. She figured out in no time how to defeat that. Sometimes I think that Shelties are too smart.

Liesje

Posted : 6/8/2007 11:33:58 AM

We had a debarked Akita that came to us that way when I was still living at home. She could bark just fine...just quieter.

I thought Akitas are known for not barking much. We had a purebred at the shelter that never barked. People were always amazed and we said "when that dog barks, pay attention b/c she means serious business!"

rwbeagles

Posted : 6/8/2007 11:36:35 AM

Exceptions to everything in every breed...you know that silly [

]. She was a kennel dog before we got her so I am sure that contributed to it.

ColleenC

Posted : 6/8/2007 12:39:14 PM

I prefer to not use bark collars, but sometimes, they are necessary. I have used them on my dogs. Rose when I first moved into the apartment would bark all day while I was gone but never, ever when I was home...so, I could not correct her. She just wore it once and then I put the caps over the little prongs so it would not shock her it would just beep. Once I got Colton, Rose quit barking at all, but Colton was very, very loud. I tried everything. He got plenty of exercise, play time, training, Kongs, nothing worked. So, I had to resort to the collar. Its not my favorite thing to use, but I would rather use it a few times than have my dogs kicked out of the apartment. Now, both of them are quiet. Once in a while they bark, but thats totally fine with me!

Bobsk8

Posted : 6/8/2007 1:33:11 PM

ORIGINAL: timsdat

I am current;y working with 2 debarked dogs at the shelter ( the third one was put down, because of problems that developed from the debarking) and all they can is make a loud wheeze. I think it is sad, that someone did that to a dog.

Ok you have seen 1 with a proplem. I probably have seen over 100 without a problem. I also have seen dogs die due to the results of a spay/neuter so do we not do that operation since dogs have died.

There is a good reason to S/N. There is no good reason to debark.

timsdat

Posted : 6/8/2007 1:39:36 PM

Bob,

Here is a very good article about debark myths and facts if you care to read it.

[linkhttp://www.naiaonline.org/articles/archives/debark_qna.htm]http://www.naiaonline.org/articles/archives/debark_qna.htm[/link]

Pwca

Posted : 6/8/2007 1:57:13 PM

There are PLENTY of reasons to debark- there are some dogs which CAN'T be trained not to bark, neighbors who complain to an actively-enforcing AC office, etc. Obviously, training is the best solution (and, IMO, the only appropriate one for puppies), but sometimes that fails, or you have a shorter time frame (ie, your dog MUST stop barking NOW or you will be evicted or your dog seized). And debarking is certainly preferable to giving up the dog for a barking problem.

Cait

mudpuppy

Posted : 6/8/2007 2:15:00 PM

estimates I've heard is that around 50% of debarked dogs have serious complications from the scar tissue a few years after the surgery, up to and including death.

Most dogs engage in nuisance barking because of owner's failure to meet the dog's needs, and treating the symptom does not help these dogs.

Pwca

Posted : 6/8/2007 7:39:16 PM

Where do those estimates come from?

I was curious, so I asked my vet today when I picked up Morrigan's meds (Morrigan is our 15 year old cat, hand-raised by the vet when she was in her last year of vet school). She didn't know of any figures or studies, but she's never seen a dog with complications from debarking itself. (From surgery- anesthesia complications, yes, but from the procedure itself, no.) She's only been practicing for 15 years, though. I also dropped emails to 3 sheltie breeders, two of whom routinely debark and one of whom has done it on an as-needed basis, and Mal's breeder, co-breeder, and another collie person, all of whom own or have owned debarked dogs. I haven't heard from everyone yet, but the people I've heard from (3 of 6) haven't reported ANY complications. So maybe that 50% is all belonging to the other people. I don't know.

Cait

Bobsk8

Posted : 6/8/2007 8:31:24 PM

ORIGINAL: timsdat

Bob,

Here is a very good article about debark myths and facts if you care to read it.

[linkhttp://www.naiaonline.org/articles/archives/debark_qna.htm]http://www.naiaonline.org/articles/archives/debark_qna.htm[/link]

I can't believe that you would quote an article form NAIA, and expect me to believe that it is the least bit concerned about the rights and well being of animals. This is an organization is that has as it's top two officers, a Lawyer from the Circus, and a Cattle Rancher.... Now there are two animal lovers that any pet owner could trust........LOL

Bobsk8

Posted : 6/8/2007 8:32:48 PM

ORIGINAL: mudpuppy

estimates I've heard is that around 50% of debarked dogs have serious complications from the scar tissue a few years after the surgery, up to and including death.

Most dogs engage in nuisance barking because of owner's failure to meet the dog's needs, and treating the symptom does not help these dogs.

I have seen this first hand, and it is sad. the dog always sounds like it can't catch it's breath.

Bobsk8

Posted : 6/8/2007 8:33:44 PM

ORIGINAL: Pwca

Where do those estimates come from?

I was curious, so I asked my vet today when I picked up Morrigan's meds (Morrigan is our 15 year old cat, hand-raised by the vet when she was in her last year of vet school). She didn't know of any figures or studies, but she's never seen a dog with complications from debarking itself. (From surgery- anesthesia complications, yes, but from the procedure itself, no.) She's only been practicing for 15 years, though. I also dropped emails to 3 sheltie breeders, two of whom routinely debark and one of whom has done it on an as-needed basis, and Mal's breeder, co-breeder, and another collie person, all of whom own or have owned debarked dogs. I haven't heard from everyone yet, but the people I've heard from (3 of 6) haven't reported ANY complications. So maybe that 50% is all belonging to the other people. I don't know.

Cait

Don't any of these people know how to train a dog, rather than resorting to a knife to solve their problems?

Bobsk8

Posted : 6/8/2007 8:37:13 PM

ORIGINAL: Pwca

There are PLENTY of reasons to debark- there are some dogs which CAN'T be trained not to bark, neighbors who complain to an actively-enforcing AC office, etc. Obviously, training is the best solution (and, IMO, the only appropriate one for puppies), but sometimes that fails, or you have a shorter time frame (ie, your dog MUST stop barking NOW or you will be evicted or your dog seized). And debarking is certainly preferable to giving up the dog for a barking problem.

Cait

I don't understand why anyone would not want to use a bark collar, which usually results in the dog cured of the barking problem almost immediately, but instead have their dog's vocal chords cut . That is really bizarre in my opinion.

Pwca

Posted : 6/8/2007 8:49:34 PM

I don't know. Two have multiple MACH dogs, one of them has multiple OTCHs as well. So, yes, I'd say they know how to train. They simply find that it is more humane, in their opinion, to debark, and less harmful to the dog than the significant aversives. With dogs who find barking so self-reinforcing, it IS sometimes the only option.

Bobsk8

Posted : 6/8/2007 8:53:18 PM

ORIGINAL: Pwca

I don't know. Two have multiple MACH dogs, one of them has multiple OTCHs as well. So, yes, I'd say they know how to train. They simply find that it is more humane, in their opinion, to debark, and less harmful to the dog than the significant aversives. With dogs who find barking so self-reinforcing, it IS sometimes the only option.

Cutting the dogs vocal chords is not aversive, but a bark collar is......?????????? Unreal.....

Anyone use a Bark Collar?