rwbeagles-an article about women and the pill

sl2crmeg

And what about women who use BC as something other than birth control? I know girls who take the pill to help regulate their cycle, not just for the sole purpose of not getting pregnant. Is *that* wrong?

That's why I was originally put on it. To regulate and help my cramps which were sooo bad! I'm not for or against abortion but I think people should have that option. I believe there are some cases when abortion is necessary. What about rape victims? I know there was something mentioned in there about the morning after pill. What if that right was taken away and you were forced to carry a child of a man that brutally raped you one night? Creeps me out to think that.  I think this is another, where do you draw the line. Just like someone stated above, then you should have to stop prescribing viagra, and what about doctors who don't agree with smoking, or this or that, if it starts, then it will never end.

But will it never end?  Is that the truth? 

It seems like some times we refuse to do something good for us because of a slippery slope argument.  Well, if they outlaw this they can outlaw that, or if we allow this than the people will think it is ok to allow that.  Most things that come up we feel would lead to something worse.  Does it really?  Are the American people and legislators so bad that they will use a small law to get a foothold into do other laws that could be very detrimental to society.  Do you think we would allow them?  Or is it really in the American people's hands? 

Maybe we are afraid of passing some laws because the judicial system will use them to extrapolate and use them to mean things we never meant them to mean?

I know this is a little off topic, but every time a law is passed people are always like "Omg!  Since they passed that it will mean passing this!  We are doomed!!!"  And I want to know what makes everyone believe that.  Both "sides" do it equally it seems.

  I mean, sometimes it sounds pretty silly and over-reacting, like "Omg!  They overturned the handgun laws, now someone will be running a nuclear plant in their backyard!  Nuclear holocaust is upon us!"  Or something to that affect.   What the heck? I am pretty sure that is a logical fallacy, but I don't want to spend the time to look it up.

This proposal is absolutely ridiculous, & quite upsetting.  While I don't condone abortion as a mean of birth contol, who am I to judge others who do?  I do not view the pill, injection, iud, ect..., nor do I view the "morning after" pill as a form of abortion. 

I will say that I don't believe that this will pass largely due to the fact that pharmaceutical companies stand to lose lots of money.  We all know that many of our politicians love the deep pockets of pharmaceutical companies.

jennyx0023

What about rape victims? I know there was something mentioned in there about the morning after pill. What if that right was taken away and you were forced to carry a child of a man that brutally raped you one night?

I may be totally wrong with this but I must throw it out there...How long would it be before rape was legalized?  It is, in fact, a method of procreation...

Just scary - I really don't like the idea of other people dictating what I can or can't do with my uterus/ovaries/eggs.  I, too, was originally put on BCPs for a reason other than contraception:  to treat suspected endometriosis.  Without treatment, cramps will incapacitate me every 3 weeks, even with a large dose of pain meds.  I can't imagine having to give up BCPs for that reason alone, but now that I use them for their original purpose they're doubly important to my quality of life (a child is not in the plan for at least 7 years due to personal goals and financial situation).

In addition to the whole "what will this lead to" argument, I find the thought of this being slipped in without the need for congressional approval, and the lack of a comment from McCain a potentially *nasty* combination.  Scary indeed. 

I am glad folks are reading and thinking about this. Regardless of where you might stand on the issue raised...my daughter is who I think about...and the idea of presumptions being made about her and her sexual life, assumptions about what she should be, or how she should "use" her body, really worry me if things like those in the article...ever take hold.

It was brought up elsewhere as here about the Supreme Court and that did make me think and read up on it, and find out who those judges are and how they get there...and I wasn't happy with what I found. *sigh*

I find that article very disturbing!  What medicial care is appropriate is the providence of doctors - not politicians!  Allowing one group to push their version of "morality" on others goes against the very foundation of the separation of church and state.

I am old enough to remember the time before Roe vs Wade.  When I was 12, one of my 12-year-old girlfriends got pregnant, so at 13 she had a baby and was married to the 14-year-old father.  By 21 my friend was divorced and had buried her 9-year-old daughter.  The child's death was an accident, but was the direct result of a squabble between immature parents.  The child got in a car with daddy, realized that he was taking her away from mommy, got out of the moving vehicle, and died instantly.

That whole situation made a dramatic impression on me.  Women have a right to control their bodies and society has a right to protect its citizens.  Roe vs Wade is a compromise between those two rights.  That Supreme Court ruling came about when back alley abortions and attempted self-abortions were common - and frequently resulted in death.

Currently the leading cause of death of pregnant women (outside of medicial complications) is homicide!!  A lot of men aren't happy about becoming fathers, so at least some of those back alley abortions were coerced.

Not so long ago in the U.S. men felt they had a right to beat their wives (some still do).  Women couldn't vote (1920 - 19th amendment).  Those who tried to distribute condoms were jailed (1910's).  Questioning a woman's right to control her own body is a step back toward those times.  Anyone who thinks that can't happen should talk to the women who are back in burkas after being free of them for years.

As I see it Bush actually trying to change the definition of the word "pregnancy" is ridiculous.  A spontaneous abortion is a miscarriage (the body's natural rejection of a pregnancy).  A voluntary abortion is the deliberate removal of an embryo or fetus from the uterus in order to end a pregnancy. 

Since by definition an abortion ends a pregnancy, it follows that one must first have a pregnancy.  Pregnancy starts with the successful implantation of an embryo in the uterus.  Pregnancy does not start at fertilization!

I don't believe that life "starts" at fertilization.  Life started a long time ago and we merely pass it on to our children.

janetmichel3009

as for abortion, i just wanted to say that i know quite a few people who really do see abortion as an easy fix and are using it this option after irresponsible behaviour on their part.

I am sure that China makes getting an abortion easy, cheap, and convenient.  I can see that increasing the number of people who use abortion as a birth control option and that is not something I approve of.

In the U.S. an abortion is much harder to get for many people and it certainly isn't cheap.  In fact 87 percent of U.S. counties have no abortion provider.

Aina

Are the American people and legislators so bad that they will use a small law to get a foothold into do other laws that could be very detrimental to society.  Do you think we would allow them?  Or is it really in the American people's hands? 

I wouldn't use the term "so bad".  "So clueless" is a better phrase.  And yes, we do allow it.

The anti-choice forces have used this method for years to make abortions as expensive as possible and as hard to get as possible. 

Ways to increase the expense include

• making women wait overnight to "think about it" - may require a hotel stay and taking a day off of work
• requiring a clinic to obtain all the equipment of a hospital operating suite - major overkill
• zoning changes that force a clinic to move to a different location or close
• endless inspections with high fines for minor problems
• creating a need for security personnel
• vandalism

Some of the other ways that abortions are made difficult to obtain:

• misinformation and confusing information from "crisis pregnancy centers"
• intimidation of doctors, clinic staff, and patients - One doctor quit when his son's elementary school was picketed.
• gag orders that keep doctors from talking about abortion
• restrictions on women who are dependent on the goverment or military

Do some reading and you will find more.  Start with http://www.prochoiceamerica.org

What I find especially outrageous is the withholding of family planning funds from other countries that permit abortion - even if the U.S. funds are not used for that purpose.

janet_rose

janetmichel3009

as for abortion, i just wanted to say that i know quite a few people who really do see abortion as an easy fix and are using it this option after irresponsible behaviour on their part.

I am sure that China makes getting an abortion easy, cheap, and convenient.  I can see that increasing the number of people who use abortion as a birth control option and that is not something I approve of.

yes, abortions here are rediculously easy to get! i dont know if that has a effect on people's outlook on them. at least the people i know. my friends are mostly foreigners. but i think it's entirely possible!

and i may be wrong, but i was always under the impression that the pill stops a woman from ovulating. so how the hell can that be couted as an abortion??

janet_rose

Allowing one group to push their version of "morality" on others goes against the very foundation of the separation of church and state.

Outside of the context of abortion, birth control, etc, - I keep thinking about Tom Cruise and his morality pseudo-crusade against anti-depression medications (think Brooke Shields post-partum).  If someone's religious beliefs discredited medications for mental/emotional/behavior issues and a law allowed them to deny services to someone because of it... shoot, I think we'd be in BIG trouble! 

janetmichel3009

and i may be wrong, but i was always under the impression that the pill stops a woman from ovulating. so how the hell can that be couted as an abortion??

It can't actually.  The problem is that the more conservative, right wing Supreme Court Justices would like nothing better than to have womens reproductive rights either removed completely or pushed back into the 19th. century.

Joyce

janetmichel3009

and i may be wrong, but i was always under the impression that the pill stops a woman from ovulating. so how the hell can that be couted as an abortion?? 

fuzzy_dogs_mom

It can't actually.  The problem is that the more conservative, right wing Supreme Court Justices would like nothing better than to have womens reproductive rights either removed completely or pushed back into the 19th. century. 

The count on the Supreme court is 5-4, so we are tettering on the edge of going back to having a mismash of state laws.  I bet most people don't even know what their state law is.  It is "safe" right now for politicans to vote for very strictive laws if that would make their voters happy, because the laws can't be enforced.

 Wow.  What is the President's deal anyway?  I mean, why the heck does he even frickin' care?  Did some mistress of his have an abortion and now he's pissed off?  Seriously, the statement that he's trying to change the definition of "pregnancy" is as ridiculous as mine about a mistress!  (I hope!!)

 Personally, I am pro life because I have seen several friends who have had an abortion and then had severe depression and other health problems, even years later,  and a future mom waiting years and paying thousands of dollars to adopt a child.   Unwanted pregnancy is like licking a flagpole in middle of winter.  You aren't getting unstuck without a lot of pain and leaving a little bit of yourself behind. 

 However, although I wouldn't use the pill,  I don't think it is abortion.  Anything to keep people from getting pregnant is fine with me.  In fact, I think that if someone wants to get their tubes tied at 16 without ever having a kid it is their choice and they should be allowed to do so.   I also think we should make it easier to adopt.  It is like we have groups of people that are wanting kids so bad that some marriages break up because of it, and then other groups that are having a lot of unwanted pregnancies, yet we won't let them get together and figure out where all the kids go so they can have loving homes.  How much sense does this make?

You guys are making pro-lifers out to be a bunch of maniacs.  We aren't that bad.  We are pretty sensible, we just see life differently than you do.  There are very few who would actually do what you are afraid we would do.  Yes, there are a few picketer crazies and vandals.  But hey, look at all the green freaks picketing and vandalizing and all that junk.  Are all you green people that bad? (If you are I have a great company for you to... never mind.)
Or take PETA for example.  They make people who want to see the ethical treatment of animals look like a bunch of nuts!!!

So, my point is there are nuts everywhere.   There are also reasonable people who see the issue differently from you.  They don't want to take away your freedom, they just have a different viewpoint on what freedom is.  After all, Ron Paul is a *libertarian*, and he is pro-life.

Aina

You guys are making pro-lifers out to be a bunch of maniacs. 

I consider myself "pro-life" in that I personally could never have an abortion, but as far as this issue in general I am "Pro women making their own choices with their doctor."  I don't see why the government even feels compelled to get in the middle of an issue like this.  For me this issue is bigger than just whether abortion is killing babies, it's about the government being able to decide who is allowed what medical treatment and procedures.  That's not OK with me.