Obama said what?

Xeph

I just have to ask what's wrong with being a liberal?  People use the word like it's the newest four letter word :-/

I'm a liberal...so what?  I don't jump all over conservatives for being conservative, I just happen to disagree with them
 

It goes both ways though.  You could just as easily ask that same question about conservatives.  I've heard people refer to conservatives, neo-cons, right wingers, and Christian conservatives (one of my very *favorite* labels ) like they are something stuck to the bottom of their shoe.

sillysally

It goes both ways though.  You could just as easily ask that same question about conservatives.  I've heard people refer to conservatives, neo-cons, right wingers, and Christian conservatives (one of my very *favorite* labels ) like they are something stuck to the bottom of their shoe.

Yup!  "ring-wing conspiracy" is one of my favorites.  And, "you sound just like Rush Limbaugh" as if it's an insult.  If you ever listen to the man, he is quite intelligent.  There's a reason he kicks everyone else's bootie on talk radio.

aerial1313

sillysally

Of course not.  I never said it was OK.  Actually, I think I said I didn't agree with it--a couple of times.  However, respect works both ways if the shoe were on the other foot I have no doubt that *some* of those crying foul in regards to Obama's name usage would have no trouble making Nazi remarks about McCain...... 

ETA  & OT - Sally, your pic of Heath Ledger is totally freaking me out!  I need to see this movie....

Liesje

the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, religion,descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life. '^[1]

Ok, if we're going after semantics here, the term 'racism' means the belief that one race is inherently superior to another.  Therefore, nothing on this thread is racist, unless the person posting holds that belief.  I do not in any way at all believe that to be the case.  The proper term would be "ignorant" or "bigoted."  That is all.

ETA for grammar.  On the topic of semantics nonetheless...foot inserted in mouth. 

aerial1313

Ok, if we're going after semantics here, the term 'racism' means the belief that one race is inherently superior to another.  Therefore, nothing on this thread is racist, unless the person posting holds that belief.  I do not in any way at all believe that to be the case.  The proper term would be "ignorant" or "bigoted."  That is all.

Not everyone defines it that way.  See the bit you quoted.  "Distinction...based on...religion, descent, ..or ethnic origin..."

Liesje

aerial1313

Ok, if we're going after semantics here, the term 'racism' means the belief that one race is inherently superior to another.  Therefore, nothing on this thread is racist, unless the person posting holds that belief.  I do not in any way at all believe that to be the case.  The proper term would be "ignorant" or "bigoted."  That is all.

 

Not everyone defines it that way.  See the bit you quoted.  "Distinction...based on...religion, descent, ..or ethnic origin..."

So the next time someone on here makes a less than kind generalization about Christians they are being racist?  I'll keep that in mind......... 

sillysally

Of course not.  I never said it was OK.  Actually, I think I said I didn't agree with it--a couple of times.  However, respect works both ways if the shoe were on the other foot I have no doubt that *some* of those crying foul in regards to Obama's name usage would have no trouble making Nazi remarks about McCain...... 

I understand you don't agree with it.  I don't see how some people making McCain-Nazi references (I have not heard any myself thank God) excuses or explains making Obama-Islam references...I think both are immature at best, more like abhorrently insensitive and prejudicial, to me at least. 

sillysally

So the next time someone on here makes a less than kind generalization about Christians they are being racist?  I'll keep that in mind......... 

If someone points out that you have a supposedly Christian name (not sure if you do or not) and makes negative and prejudicial inferences and judgments about you based on that, then yes.

Liesje

Not everyone defines it that way.  See the bit you quoted.  "Distinction...based on...religion, descent, ..or ethnic origin..."

Ummm, ok, well I will say that it is my opinion that Merriam-Webster is a more reliable source than the UN (shakes head at this org), and their definition is:

Main Entry: rac·ism Pronunciation: \ˈrā-ˌsi-zəm also -ˌshi-\ Function: noun Date: 1933 1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race 2 : racial prejudice or discrimination — rac·ist \-sist also -shist\ noun or adjective

sillysally

Just throwing that out there-it would be good to remember that religious tolerance works both ways...... 

Sorry if implied otherwise.  I was coming from the point of view that is VERY apparent in a thread like this, that if your middle name is Hussein you are not to be trusted and are somehow associated with 9/11.  When people are referring to Barack Obama as B. Hussein they are doing that to focus on the negative association with the name Hussein.  He doesn't refer to himself as such so why would you or anyone else?

There really can't be any question that people from the middle east, muslims in particular are treated in a suspicious manner. I for one see this as sad.  I was out last week with someone who made a huge deal about someone coming to work in their office with the middle eastern garb on, head covered, face all but eyes covered.  They were saying that is wasn't acceptable as it made people uncomfortable.  Pursuing why it was an issue I learned that this person and her spouse and my DH felt that all muslims weren't to be trusted.  So when the media says B.Hussein that is what they are praying upon, what to me is basically a very immature or undeveloped understanding of another religion.

I told my dinner company that I was shocked that their perspective was so skewed and sad that people I respected couldn't see past a costume.  I grew up outside of NYC and have always been exposed to people from around the world many of which wear traditional/religious dress, it just doesn't freak me out or lead me to make assumptions about people.  Hassidic Jews, Amish, Africans, Middle Easterners, Asians, Mennonite, Mormons all have specific dress, big deal. One doesn't bother me more than another.

Although the US is supposedly tolerant and preaches freedom of religion it is/was founded in Christianity - I am not an expert on this just repeated what has been told to me by people who are very well versed in the politics of this country from the beginning to now, and this has historically given all the power to Christians. I believe that every president has been a Christian. 

I currently live in the Bible belt so I do not see Christians treated as 'weirdos', everyone else is though

Liesje

If someone points out that you have a supposedly Christian name (not sure if you do or not) and makes negative and prejudicial inferences and judgments about you based on that, then yes.

I don't remember anyonemaking any negative or prejudicial inferences and judgements about Obama's name on this thread.  They stated his name, and from there folks inferred what they wanted.  No one actually came on here and said, his name is this...that means he's evil!

Aerial, the definition of racism hinges on the definition of "race" which is something that is somewhat subjective and people from different fields of study hold slightly different definitions.  Maybe to some race is ONLY skin color (black or white), but honestly I've never heard it defined that way until this thread.  Not saying it's wrong, but that's where I'm coming from.

Take this part

a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities

If race includes ethnicity (which for me it always has), then looking at someone's name as it pertains to ethnicity (in this case, supposedly Muslim) and using that trait alone to make assumptions about that person's capabilities is racist. 

I've seen this happen far more often with Jewish names. "Steinberg? Well..."

Liesje

If someone points out that you have a supposedly Christian name (not sure if you do or not) and makes negative and prejudicial inferences and judgments about you based on that, then yes.

Coud you point that out where exactly in this thread it happened?

I said he is an idiot based on his political platform and making dummy decisions. He happens to be the person I don't want to see as President.....to me he is not the "Anointed One".....lol......Give me Condi Rice any day........

I'm just curious, because I am not one to use the name game, but would it be considered acceptable to say "Barack Hussein Obama", as opposed to the B. Hussein, in the same manner folks frequently referred to them as Richard Milhouse Nixon and George Herbert Walker Bush?  I'm not being sarcastic, I just want to know where the line is drawn, and I do see how the B. Hussein is used and portrayed as a negative, so I really am just wondering.

ETA for grammar yet again, because apparently I cannot type this evening...

Personally when I see a muslim woman dressed in traditional garb, my first thought is "What beautiful fabric!  I wonder where they got it."

There were two muslim women in the local mall today in traditional dress, and their clothing was BEAUTIFUL