I am wondering - Outdoor vs. Working (aDork)

aDorkable

I guess I'm wondering because Misha stays outdoors most of the time. He prefers being outside. He does come inside, he gets walked, and he's trained (training...) but his personal preference 90% of the time is to live outside.

Mine are the same way. They have a beautiful yard and access to a 3 car garage with dog beds in it. The house also has dog beds, but they're rarely used for more than a nap on a hot day.

If you know in your heart that your dog is getting the best life you could give, then don't worry about what other people think. Everyone's got an opinion about what's best, but it doesn't mean they're right.

 Those of you wondering whether or not your dogs should be outside as much as they are, ask yourselves this:

1) Are they safe? Could they get squished by a car, stolen by evil people, or attacked by wildlife without you being able to intervene?

2) Are they comfortable? Do they have shelter from the heat/cold, adequate food, readily available water, a comfy (for them) place to snooze?

3) Are they happy? If given the choice, would they be where they are, or somewhere else? Do they still get human companionship, exercise (like walks), training, vet care...?

IMO, if the answer to those questions is "yes," then the dogs are fine. If your dog wants to run around outside in your yard for 4 hours and the yard is set up such that it's safe for them to do so (and you can monitor them sporadically), then why not?

I don't think dogs should be left outside when the owners are gone, for safety reasons, except perhaps in a locked kennel. But that's JMO, and I'm sure it depends on the individual circumstances and setup.
 

I bet you that people that do not know me or know about me would not believe that Shailer is an outdoor dog. He is outside not because I want him to be but because my parents are really touchy about animals. They use to be big on NO ANIMALS IN THE HOUSE! but once we got Maxy and Kiddles everything changed. Shailer might spend most of his time in his kennel but I take him out for walks with his backpack, he is fed accordingly, he is extremly well behaved I want to say he is more behaved then some of the inside dogs that stay in town. Shailer is not leash aggressive, he doesn't bark on walks (unless I tell him to), and he has an extremly good recall. He does come in the house but not latly as I am currently taking care of two pups and we have a cousin and his wife who is pregnant and she is really afraid of big dogs. When he does come in the house he is well behaved. I am hoping that IF we move back to Mexico he will become an indoor dog.

I don't know anything about working dogs because the only dog I know that "works" is a blue heeler that stays in the farm where I go to ride but he isn't trained he will just try to work with the cows they have.  

For got to mention that he gets taken to the vet as well.

chelsea_b

I'm honestly not sure I believe any dog should be "outdoor only", or spend a majority of their time outside... I personally would never have an outdoor or "indoor/outdoor" dog (meaning a dog that spends a good chunk of their time outside without their people around), even if it was a "working dog", because I believe dogs should be with their people most of the time.

     To the contrary, it can be cruel to confine a working dog to the house. If the dog needs to be acclimated to cold temperatures for it's job, there is no way it can sufficiently gorw in a thick enough coat or build the sort of tolerance to harsh weather. Even my indoor Beagles need to spend several hours a day outside beginning in mid-late September when the weather begins to cool. This way, come Oct/Nov, they've grown in a good winter coat and are not bothered by the cold. Now, if you have a dog living in 68 degree climate controlled household all the time, instead of focusing on their work when called to do it, they'll be too busy shivering.

I remember once where I worked, there was a lady who believed that dogs are messy, dirty, smelly and generally unclean; even with all of these feelings, they still had a dog (???), one that lived it's life in the backyard/garage.  It was a Shepherd (and it was not used for protection, they got it because a friend of theirs was looking for a home for it), and he was never allowed inside the house in case there was the possibility of him messing it up.  Another co-worker told me that they had visited their home for a party and saw the dog in the yard, asking about why he's an outdoor dog, the woman replied "because it's a dog, and it's disgusting to keep them indoors'. 

Another case was a few years ago.  I was visiting a 'friends' house and noticed that they had a fenced in dog house.  Being a dog lover I wanted to know what kind of dog that they had, so I went over to see.  It was a lone Beagle, only taken out for occasional hunting trips, and never brought into the house.  The pen was 10x10, and lined with straw, but I just felt that this dog could have been living a more sociable life, especially being a Beagle.  They had a 'pet' dog, who was kept indoors, loved and given attention to, but I just felt awful for this lonesome dog.

These are the 'outdoor dog' stories that make dog lovers cringe, and are the cases in which I truly feel sorry for.  Some outdoor dogs are truly cared for, but the majority of them aren't, and when I hear of a dog being kept outdoors, my first reaction is not a good one...

The difference is the working dog is doing their job and is usually very happy because it is what they were bred to do and how they were raised and trained. Some other outdoor dogs who spend a lot of time outdoor might also be happy, some dogs prefer to be outside even though we raise them as indoor pets. So they might spend a large majority of time outside because that is where they want to be even without their human. Some breeds also need more human contact then others, so certain breeds do not fair well and are not happy with a lot of time away from their humans. They bond really strong and must be velcro dogs to be happy. Others are more independent, maybe kind of like a cat, can take you or leave you and doesn't need you most the time. When they want in they might come in for a bit, then just want back out after awhile. For when they are out you just need to make sure you have a secure set up for them when they are going to be outside without your supervision. I think what most people get upset about is that many dogs outside are neglected. They are put outside so the owner doesn't have to take care of them, sometimes they are starving even because the owner barely remembers to feed them.  

BEVOLASVEGAS

I consider LGD's true "working dogs."  In most instances, they will not be happy indoors.  They usually prefer staying with their flock of sheep, goats, or cattle. 

OTOH, outdoor dogs are dogs who live outside even though they don't have a specific job to do.  They would/could be very comfortable living indoors with their family.

 I disagree. LGDs bond to whatever their "flock" or "pack" is. Whether that be livestock or humans. Some do enjoy outdoor time, lazying around and getting some exercise and will be perfectly content as a family companion. It is fine to use them for their purpose and they are not lacking anything and are happy because it is what they were bred to do, but they would be happy indoors if raised with a family if that is how one wants to raise them. They might still like to spend sometime outdoors each day as they seem to enjoy it.
 

chelsea_b

I'm honestly not sure I believe any dog should be "outdoor only", or spend a majority of their time outside... I personally would never have an outdoor or "indoor/outdoor" dog (meaning a dog that spends a good chunk of their time outside without their people around), even if it was a "working dog", because I believe dogs should be with their people most of the time. Obviously an LGD who is raised with livestock as their "pack" prefers to be with the pack! even if that means living outside. That doesn't mean if they were raised differently they wouldn't prefer to live inside. I think the only reason any dog would "prefer" to live outside is because that's the way they were raised.

Though Cherokee was raised outside (not by me, obviously!), and she DEFINITELY prefers to be inside, as proven by the fact that she has access to my yard almost 100% of the time, and is inside 99% of it, it so clearly that's not a rule...

 You really don't know LGDs do you? Are you basing this off any experience. Breeds are different and individuals vary within a breed, not all dogs are like your dogs. Other dogs prefer to be sometime outside even when raised as an inside pet. If you raise an LGD to be a family pet yes it will be happy with its flock of humans. That doesn't at all take away its orientation of loving the outdoors and wanting to be an indoor outdoor dog.

spicy_bulldog: i'm pretty sure that is what she meant! if a dog is a companinion dog, no matter what the breed, it will just as easily be happy inside, but then it's not a LGD, is it?

Another thing that I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is conditioning.

 Dad (with the help of cowboys) moved and shipped several hundred head of cattle this week - after three days with just the cowboys and horses and not being able to get all the cattle rounded up, the foreman finally went home and got his stockdogs. It is OVER 100 degrees out there, and by the time they realized that yes, they really DID need the dogs, it was nearly noon. They brought out 8 dogs and it took them about 2 hours to get all the stragglers caught and across the farm into the pen for tagging and weighing and shipping.

 These dogs (and I didn't get pictures since I wasn't there - I'll have to try sometime in the future) are blackmouth curs - like Old Yeller- and they live outside. They spend a LOT of time working, and they're probably WITH a person most of every day. But they don't live in the house, and I suspect it contributes to their ability to deal with the temperatures. I know it sure does with people.

 (Indy, btw, was with my parents, and was OUTRAGED that he was not allowed to help. :P)

Cait


 

Spicy_Bulldog

Other dogs prefer to be sometime outside even when raised as an inside pet.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. My dog LOVES to be outside...but not by herself, and not LIVE outside. She loves hiking and camping, and walks are the highlight of her life, but hanging out in the yard, especially by herself? Not her forte at all. Obviously most dogs like being outside, but there's a HUGE difference between spending time outdoors with the "pack", and being locked in a yard by themselves.

Spicy_Bulldog

If you raise an LGD to be a family pet yes it will be happy with its flock of humans. That doesn't at all take away its orientation of loving the outdoors and wanting to be an indoor outdoor dog.

So you're telling me an LGD raised as a pet, inside, with people, would rather be outside by itself, than inside with its people? I really really don't believe that, but you're right, I have no experience with LGDs besides my sister's pyr mix.

chelsea_b

Spicy_Bulldog

Other dogs prefer to be sometime outside even when raised as an inside pet.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. My dog LOVES to be outside...but not by herself, and not LIVE outside. She loves hiking and camping, and walks are the highlight of her life, but hanging out in the yard, especially by herself? Not her forte at all. Obviously most dogs like being outside, but there's a HUGE difference between spending time outdoors with the "pack", and being locked in a yard by themselves.

 I understood you, you were clear. That is what I mean by not all dogs are the same. I have dogs that vary on what they like to do and what they do and don't like. 

 I can see that with my own. I have one that hates being outside alone, she doesn't much like being alone at all, she used to have SA. She also hates cold, rain, snow, wet grass. She would not enjoy being outside by herself. If I'm out there she has a blast. The only exception would be if she is playing with the springpole, that keeps her occupied. So when I do dishes I let her do that and I watch her have fun from the kitchen window. Other then that she wouldn't have anything to do with being outside with out me.

I had one I raised to be inside, breeder also had her inside, but as she grew older she wanted to be in less and less. She did not even want to play inside. She would sleep or nap inside brief rest as she was very hyper but she would always rather run around chasing bugs or digging up grubs outside. Don't ask me why. Even playing she would want me to play outside with her, which isn't her being alone but still part of her outside deal. I'll also say she wasn't very bonded really, she didn't seem pack oriented. I tried to spend time with her playing outside and walking her, but she was not so much into her family.

Spicy_Bulldog

If you raise an LGD to be a family pet yes it will be happy with its flock of humans. That doesn't at all take away its orientation of loving the outdoors and wanting to be an indoor outdoor dog.

So you're telling me an LGD raised as a pet, inside, with people, would rather be outside by itself, than inside with its people? I really really don't believe that, but you're right, I have no experience with LGDs besides my sister's pyr mix.

Yeah that is what I'm saying. The house is open, yet this is where she choses to lay outside on the deck. I'd say 80% of the time outside, comes inside a few times. Others chose to spend less time outside 50-75%. Other like to lay in front of the widows to watch for something to alert about. Still others would want to be by you, they would lay and laze around like their typical selves but if you move they move, which is also part of their nature. They do vary in their nature from LGD breeds and individuals. Most work in at least a pair if not more together in a pack and take different positions within the rank and different task while doing their job. They also love the cold weather and snow, they like to be out in it, they seem to enjoy it. That doesn't mean they won't be happy being inside as pets, but many still like to venture outside.

 Liking the outdoors isn't a trait exclusive to LGD's though LOL.  Most do very well as pets if raised as such from a young age....as someone said, they bond to whatever their designated "flock" is...no better or worse than any other dog.  Yes they like to be outside, but so does my lab.  90% of the LGD's I know (which are admittedly all the same breed) are all perfectly happy house dogs that sit in the garden on sunny days and then go back inside when it gets dark.  They do have a tendency to sleep across doorways, though, because guarding boundaries is their thing. 

And an LGD is and LGD even if it doesn't guard sheep....it's like a border collie still being a "herder" even if it lives in the middle of a city and has never seen a sheep.  It's more a label for "type".  At least it is here, anyway.
 

Benedict

 Liking the outdoors isn't a trait exclusive to LGD's though LOL.  Most do very well as pets if raised as such from a young age....as someone said, they bond to whatever their designated "flock" is...no better or worse than any other dog.  Yes they like to be outside, but so does my lab.  90% of the LGD's I know (which are admittedly all the same breed) are all perfectly happy house dogs that sit in the garden on sunny days and then go back inside when it gets dark.  They do have a tendency to sleep across doorways, though, because guarding boundaries is their thing. 

And an LGD is and LGD even if it doesn't guard sheep....it's like a border collie still being a "herder" even if it lives in the middle of a city and has never seen a sheep.  It's more a label for "type".  At least it is here, anyway.
 

 Yup exactly. Certain breeds or types/groups have their tendencies that show frequently but many traits are not exclusive to one breed or group of breeds. They traits vary within individuals of the breed.

 
I think what they meant by the LGD comment is that they are not actively an LGD, they are an LGD breed but not doing the work of one. Like the Border Collie would be a herding breed but not a herding dog itself if it doesn't herd. At least I think that is what they were getting at.

if by they, you mean me, then, yes, that's what i meant...

janetmichel3009

if by they, you mean me, then, yes, that's what i meant...

 Yes it was you. Sorry I didn't look at who posted it. I figured that is what you meant though.
 

yup

no worries, i hate going back to see who said what, let alone quote them... hehe