I am wondering - Outdoor vs. Working (aDork)

I consider LGD's true "working dogs."  In most instances, they will not be happy indoors.  They usually prefer staying with their flock of sheep, goats, or cattle. 

OTOH, outdoor dogs are dogs who live outside even though they don't have a specific job to do.  They would/could be very comfortable living indoors with their family.

aDorkable

I want to start this off by saying I am not trying to start an epic war. Which... seems to be my talent as of late.

Anyway, I was thinking this weekend about how people here get up in arms about dogs staying outside, but not about working dogs. So what's the difference to you between a working dog and an outdoor dog? 

Kinda depends on breed I guess.  Personally, I define a "working" dog as a dog that actually does a job with a human, such as a police K9.  In GSDs though "working" often refers to a type/line and also the type of training and titling the dog does, not whether it actually does the job everyday with its human. 

To me an outdoor dog is just that, a dog that stays outdoors.  I know plenty of people with outdoor dogs that are just pets and some that work.  I don't know how I feel about outdoor dogs.  Lucky for me, my breed of choice is known for its bond with the owner and should be inside.  Also, an indicator of proper GSD temperament is the "off" switch so the dog can just be a family dog when its indoors. 

Cheyanne and Lillie are indoor outdoor dogs. During the day they are outside. Except when I am not home Lillie is crated. Cheyanne doesnt need supervision outside. At night they stay in the sunroom cats also ,it's heated and a/c.

When JJ is gone to work Cheyanne and Lillie get to come inside with me. JJ is a butt and wont let them inside. His mom never cleaned up after the dogs when he was little so he has a thing about dogs in the house now. Kujo though is allowed inside. 

I dont know if everyone agrees with the way my dogs live but it is working for us. I would rather have the dogs be inside more but JJ allows me to have them so I wont complain. 

I take it you mean working dog as in those who spend all day outside working on a farm such a s flock guardians?

I think the biggest difference is a working dog, is it works.  They have a job and purpose in life.  Generally these dogs come from working lines and have an instinctual drive to fulfill this job.  Flock guardians that spend all day protecting their herds are raised with them and bond to them like family.  These dogs often have acres to roam, and plenty to keep them busy.  They are usually well cared for by their owners because they have an important job to do and are seen as a valuable asset to the farm.  Plus you can expect the dog to receive the training necessary for it to properly do its job.  In addition to that, farm life means that you can expect to see the farm hands out often tending to the herd and other animals along with the dogs.  All that land an animal takes a lot of human care to properly care for it.  These aren't people that just pop outside once for a couple minutes to toss the dog some food.  

Simple backyard dogs on the other hand often have nothing to do.  No animals to protect, no training, and often a rather small yard with close neighbors.  These dogs can easily become a nuisance and develop bad habits from boredom and lack of mental stimulation.  To make matters worse some dogs kept outside are not even breeds that can properly handle the outdoor elements, like my neighbors outdoor English bull dog =(

So often it seems like those backyard dogs are left to rot like lawn ornaments.  Then the poor dogs when starved of human companionship finally see a human enter they often become over excited and quickly get deemed as an annoyance.  Doesn't help most get little to know training.  Their owners rarely spend time just hanging outside in the yard, and they are lucky if the receive the bare minimum in care.  And of course, since the dog is in the yard all day it must be getting plenty of excercise so no need to walk it.. would probably pull anyways. 

That is what most backyard dogs I see get as far as care.  I mean if the owner is willing to put in the time, then they would just as easily be able to mold their dog into a indoor dog.  I'm not saying you can't have a well adjusted, well cared for backyard dog, but so often that doesn't seem to be the case, at least not in my neighborhood.
 

aDorkable

I was thinking this weekend about how people here get up in arms about dogs staying outside, but not about working dogs. So what's the difference to you between a working dog and an outdoor dog? 

For me an outdoor dog is typically a sled dog, or a livestock guardian breed.  These breeds, especially the LGB are usually independent, aloof and bred for centuries to be bonded with the flock/herd.  Sled dogs are sometimes brought into a home on a rotational basis, to ensure a deep bond with the musher, but as a whole, they are outdoor dogs.

A working dog in my opinion is a police/SAR dog, seeing-eye, hearing impaired, accessability dog, narcotics/contraband dog etc.  Most of these dogs are not kept as pets, but as working companions in the home.  Although, I believe that part of the 'Beagle Brigade's' policy is that working dogs must stay at a kennel on airport grounds, not at a handlers home.

I feel that no dog should live it's life attached to a 5 foot chain.  They should  be a part of the family, socialized, trained and loved by all; not destined to a life of boredom, isolation and solitude.  Dogs are pack creatures, and thrive on being with their families.  The only exception to this rule is the sledding/LG breeds. 

Some dogs stay in kennels, which in itself isn't that bad, so long as they still receive attention, love and socialization, and some freedom.

I guess I'm wondering because Misha stays outdoors most of the time. He prefers being outside. He does come inside, he gets walked, and he's trained (training...) but his personal preference 90% of the time is to live outside. I don't see how that would be a bad life for him, though I'm aware that many people here would be up in arms about that.  I know he'd prefer to be a farm dog with lots of land to roam on, but right now I can't provide that for him, though one day I plan to. Even now he's allowed inside, and comes in several times a day (if I'm home and not working). But he also more or less has a "job" to do. His job is to alert us to when there are people or strange goings-ons in our yard.

It's a touchy subject for me because I truly believe that Willow loves being outside. 

But, when I think of outside dog I think the purpose of him being out there isn't because he likes it-it's because it's easier for the human--or human can't be bothered.  When I think working dog I'm thinking a dog that is highly valued by the family and outside to do a job like protecting farm animals or guarding.  And, this type of dog does want to be out. 

I'm honestly not sure I believe any dog should be "outdoor only", or spend a majority of their time outside... I personally would never have an outdoor or "indoor/outdoor" dog (meaning a dog that spends a good chunk of their time outside without their people around), even if it was a "working dog", because I believe dogs should be with their people most of the time. Obviously an LGD who is raised with livestock as their "pack" prefers to be with the pack! even if that means living outside. That doesn't mean if they were raised differently they wouldn't prefer to live inside. I think the only reason any dog would "prefer" to live outside is because that's the way they were raised.

Though Cherokee was raised outside (not by me, obviously!), and she DEFINITELY prefers to be inside, as proven by the fact that she has access to my yard almost 100% of the time, and is inside 99% of it, it so clearly that's not a rule...

Okay, I hope I do not get flamed for this, but BFs parents have 3 outdoor dogs.  Not working dogs, but dogs that live outside.

Saying that, however, they are not tied up.  BFs parents have 10 acres of land and a barn and the dogs run and play all day on the lands, or they are up at the house laying on you and playing with you or just relaxing.  At night they don't come into the house.  They have their own house, which is about 6 feet tall and about 10 feet deep.  They are locked in this house at night.  It has their beds, their blankets and in the winter time it has a built in heater.  On the very cold nights, they are brought inside.  But all times during the day they are outside and at night time they sleep outside in their house.  They LOVE it

And I know people might say that the dogs won't bond with the people, or be protective of the house, but at least from my experience these dogs are SO bonded with BFs family and I.  BFs father works outside on the fields after he comes home from work, until dark, and all day on the weekends, those dogs stick to him like glue, and will just sit and watch whatever he is working on, and follow him back and forth from his workshop. 

Would I ever have a 100% outdoor dog?  no.  But that's just me :)  I love dogs on the furniture!

it's not really the living conditions that people get up in arms about- it's the neglect. Many outdoor dogs spend all of their time alone doing nothing, a very unpleasant way to live for a social intelligent creature. If you keep your dog indoors locked in the basement we would be just as upset as if you had one in a kennel at the end of the yard; if your dog lives outside and works side by side with you for many hours a day, that dog probably has a great life.

One thing that is worth mentioning is that if a person is in a primarily outdoor occupation- for example, ranching- and they've got an outdoor dog that spends all day in the truck with them? That dog is getting a LOT more people-time than say, a dog who spends 8 hours crated at night and whose people are gone all day.

I don't like outdoor dogs in general and I think they're a big mistake for the vast majority of people. But it CAN work in the right setup. And I'd like to see it less villified for people to have a properly set up outdoor kennel for a dog's confinement (away from a fence so the dog can't be harassed, shady in the summer and sunny in the winter, plenty of water; enough room to move around in, and escape proof) than for so many dogs to be crated so relentlessly.  Is it ideal? No. In a perfect world we'd all be able to spend all day every day with our dogs and all dogs would be able to have free range of our homes and workplaces, regardless of supervision.

a good kennel or secure backyard is far preferable to crating all day, I agree. Again it's the people who put the dog in the kennel and there it stays all alone forevermore that are the problem.

mudpuppy

a good kennel or secure backyard is far preferable to crating all day, I agree. Again it's the people who put the dog in the kennel and there it stays all alone forevermore that are the problem.

I agree.  My ideal setup would be an indoor garage run that is cool and has beds and then a dog door that leads to an outdoor run, secure with 6+ foot fencing and some sort of cover on the top so no one gets in/out.  I don't know that I'd let my dogs have the entire yard, but enough room to pace around and stretch out, probably more room than they'd have inside my current house!  It's not really necessary, but I think it would be nice.  When I have been home from work sick or home with a sick dog, my dogs sleep ALL day.  I'll try going on a short walk for fresh air and I have to lift them up to get them going.  It's good reassurance that they are getting plenty of mental stimulation and exercise during 3pm-11pm and all weekend.  At night they are in the bedroom with us but not crated.

out door dogs are usually forgotten.... feed and water, pat on the head maybe, ... and thats about it.

ETA (i should add that most peoples perception of outdoor dogs is that they are forgotten...) 

 my bulldogs are working dogs in that they keep an eye on the place. they come in and out of the house.. Ben is better about it than he used to be. he used to be terrified of being indoors. acted like he would be beaten any second and would hide in a corner.

Kaydee is comfortable where ever she is comfortable. never can tell with her. but usually, yeah, in or out for either of them. but at night its outside because thats when thieving predator types are about.

the other two are much the same but not at night. the front yard, since it has no livestock in it, is fence off just for the dogs, so Amber and Miki get the run of that area any time they want out.

you know, i never really think about what people might think of me when it comes to the way i keep my dogs lol

in the past, while living at home with my mom, i had no choice in the matter. my dogs were 24/7 outdoor dogs and they were chained or ran loose. thats just the way it was done then. but .... i was a kid with no say-so. often times i was afraid to leave to see my dad on the weekends because of the few times i had left and come back someone had given away one of my dogs. and it was ALWAYS the one i spent the most time working with.