Just Curious if anyone else is angry over this?

snownose

There is a lot of day dreaming going on here.....

You guy have a clue how most of these people get scooped up? Most of them are raids through suspected terrorist hide outs......when there are weapons and other things on the premises. Some of them get killed some of them get picked up, simple.......I have military members in the family who report on a weekly basis......I am sorry, this is not a conventional war situation at all ....these people don't wear uniforms and are identified by their garb who's side they are on.....very difficult in war fare........don't play armchair quarterback......just sayin'

That's not the only way they are scooped up.  Heard of Blackwater?  That's part of my family.  Talk about unconventional war.... yes we are veeeery familiar with how things get done, especially the justice being dealt "under the table".... 

If anything is daydreaming its the notion that this decision is somehow encouraging terrorists to operate at large in our country by cutting them all loose.

 I am so thankful for the Supreme Court's decision I could cry.

I agree with everything 4IC has said.

Are there "bad guys" at Gitmo?  I don't doubt it. But there is no evidence - none - that MANY MANY detainees at Guantanamo Bay did anything against the United States. They were labeled enemy combatants, but there was no formal process for identifying who was a part of what. All you had to do was be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I am so ashamed of some of the things the Bush administration has done. I don't blame the military. I blame an administration who has bent laws and ignored others to pursue a policy of illegal detention, torture, and violence. I want America to be better than that. I want America to be what we all say it is, and what it can be.

History will look back at Bush and this detention/rendition garbage with condemnation. 

Liesje

I don't see the relevance, with regard to the question.  Plenty of friends and family are not US citizens... 

Anyway, I don't see the point of holding someone without a formal charge because they *might* do something.  Jail "suspected terrorists" because they *might* get out and bomb my DH's school?....That's like saying we might as well round up all the GSDs and kennel them because a bunch of them DID bite people so hey, maybe mine was going to bite your dad so lets get rid of them all!  Um....no.  

Like Cassidy'sMom said, I have no problems with dealing justice - charging, trying, sentencing.  I don't think anyone here is advocating for terrorists to be turned loose run at large and bomb our communities...

The relevance is that the likelihood of someone on this board's family member being captured in Afghanistan and transported to Gitmo is much lower than is the likelihood a released detainee will cause harm once they are out.  I believe I already backed this up with a story from the NYT of a released detainee returning to Iraq and killing people in a suicide bomb attack in Mosul.

And I already stated in a previous post that I don't understand why they are held without charges, either.

I have no problem dealing justice, either.  But I believe war criminals should be tried in military courts, where the folks in charge have a better understanding of the circumstances than do civilian courts.  We do this with our own soldiers who are accused of crimes, why not enemy combatants?  Why should they be allowed more "rights" in this country than our own citizens?

Liesje

If anything is daydreaming its the notion that this decision is somehow encouraging terrorists to operate at large in our country by cutting them all loose.

How about our men and women who would have to go through that crowd again and risk their lives all over again over the same suspects......it's not just us here on safe soil who benefits from having the suspects locked up......daydreaming......yep.....

snownose

How about our men and women who would have to go through that crowd again and risk their lives all over again over the same suspects......it's not just us here on safe soil who benefits from having the suspects locked up......daydreaming......yep.....

I come from a military and law enforcement family as well.  No one is challenging the military in general, or trying to downplay the important role that they play in our public safety and maintaining our freedoms.  I'm proud of my family members and their willingness to serve.

Some of the statements made in this thread don't reflect the facts about this decision.
 

aerial1313

Cassidys Mom

snownose

.....but, on the other hand, say we cut all the suspected terrorists lose and some cause real harm, let's say .....hmmmm bomb a school your DH is working at(just an example folks), how are you going to feel then?

That's one of those fake either/or questions. We have more than two choices here, it's not just leaving them incarcerated without charges forever, or letting them all go immediately free. Nobody has suggested that we just "cut all the suspected terrorists loose", nor is that the only other option.

I don't see how that question is any more "fake" than the "what if it were your family member" question, and I think it's much more likely that someone's family member would be a victim of a terrorist than would be a suspected terrorist.  Please remember - the detainees are NOT US citizens, and they were captured in other countries and brought to Cuba.

Dog_ma

I want America to be better than that. I want America to be what we all say it is, and what it can be.

 What she said!
 

Cassidys Mom

What's wrong with actually TRYING them in a court of law?

What's wrong with trying them in a military court?

Cassidys Mom

Dog_ma

I want America to be better than that. I want America to be what we all say it is, and what it can be.

 

 What she said!
 

That is a very nice and noble attitude.....but, in reality doesn't work.....we are not dealing with people who think like the average person......this type of terrorism has been going on forever......look what happens in Israel....innocent people get blown to bits on a regular basis......do you really think you(general) can sit down with people who have no problem blowing themselves up or people who recruit youngsters to do so and convince them of anything?

It boils down to "Kill" or be "Killed"........

And, since we are having a hard time really identifying the terrorists that got scooped up , I say keeping them locked up to minimize more killings is fine in the line of war against terrorism until a military court decides they are innocent......and a military court it should be.......

aerial1313

Cassidys Mom

What's wrong with actually TRYING them in a court of law?

What's wrong with trying them in a military court?

snownose

And, since we are having a hard time really identifying the terrorists that got scooped up , I say keeping them locked up to minimize more killings is fine in the line of war against terrorism until a military court decides they are innocent......and a military court it should be.......

 Again, fine.  But you can't just leave them there indefinitely without ever letting them see the inside of a courtroom, military or otherwise.

Cassidys Mom

Fine - that's a court of law.

Then what are we debating about?  That is at the very heart of this ruling.

aerial1313

Cassidys Mom

Fine - that's a court of law.

Then what are we debating about?  That is at the very heart of this ruling.

Because some people are debating that they don't even have the right to that - that we should simply shoot them all. That there is nothing wrong with detaining people indefinitely. That there is nothing wrong with them not having the right to defend themselves because no charges have been brought against them. Because some people assume that the only possible way to end up detained is because you're guilty, and consequently you should expect to forfeit basic human rights.

Well, I don't agree with those stronger viewpoints (though I, like snownose, would rather err on the side of caution when it comes to the safety of innocent civilians), but I also don't agree that the SC made the right decision on this case.  I am also dismayed that many (not just here on this forum) have taken the opportunity to bash and blame the President on this topic, without acknowledging that it is Congress who created and passed the laws that were debated by the SC on this case.  I finally was able to find and read the whole opinion today, and they were basically arguing the constitutionality of two laws, which, by the way, in a previous similar case, 4 of the 5 in the majority on yesterday's decision had the opposite opinion that they had yesterday.  Very interesting.  They basically said, in this case, that all of the issues that the detainee who was the plaintiff in this case was arguing for should not be decided by law, but on the District Court level.  I don't understand that at all.

I totally respect your anger and fear. If I had a child  or loved on in harms way I have no idea How I would cope.  I add only this, I believe in my country and support the troops,  living in an amazing country such as ours, we will never please everyone and never protect every one. But darn it all as a Nation we sure do try.  Thank you for your Son's service. He is a wonderful man.

Sincerely

Bonita of Bwana