Absolute Worst Vet Experience Ever!! (mrstjohnson)

A lot of places just are not prepared for dogs like that.  The vets and techs aren't comfortable around dogs like that sometimes especially if they don't deal with that sort of dog all the time.  That's why I put this on the owners who just sat there and let it happen

I agree, although it's not so much comfort as it is the complex issue of what happens if the dogs get hurt or hurt someone else.. While there were many other things that could have been done, there are a ton of legality issues involving what a vet can and cannot do to someone's dogs. Technically, we are told to never, ever allow an owner to restrain their dog while we are examining them. The reason behind that is that if the owner gets bitten when we give a shot., etc - we get sued right off the bat. And the compound that issue, when you have a very aggressive or reactive  dog, and the techs/vet are handling it, if the dog ends up getting hurt (jumping off the table, straining to get away and hurting itself), again you'll get sued. Some owners simply throw a conniption sit if you suggest muzzling their dogs, or asking them to wait outside.

I put the majority of the blame on the owners, but also agree that the clinic should have more procedures in place for when such things happen.

 ack! Was that one of the recommendations I got for you? Please let me know who it was. You can PM me if you want.

I think it's very difficult for them to have procedures in place because each problem dog is going to have it's own unique issue--so them having one protocol to follow if the dog is "aggressive" I don't think that would work.  For example, my dog is MUCH better if they take her from me to examine her.  Is that my preference? No, but if that's what gets the job done then so be it.  But, the next dog the situation might not be solved by that.  I really think each owner needs to know what would be the best way for them to proceed. 

Also, I can't imagine as the owner of a dog like this thinking "I'm going to sue".  I usually thinking "I'm so thankful they will even see her!" 

whtsthfrequency

I agree, although it's not so much comfort as it is the complex issue of what happens if the dogs get hurt or hurt someone else.. While there were many other things that could have been done, there are a ton of legality issues involving what a vet can and cannot do to someone's dogs. Technically, we are told to never, ever allow an owner to restrain their dog while we are examining them. The reason behind that is that if the owner gets bitten when we give a shot., etc - we get sued right off the bat. And the compound that issue, when you have a very aggressive or reactive  dog, and the techs/vet are handling it, if the dog ends up getting hurt (jumping off the table, straining to get away and hurting itself), again you'll get sued. Some owners simply throw a conniption sit if you suggest muzzling their dogs, or asking them to wait outside.

I put the majority of the blame on the owners, but also agree that the clinic should have more procedures in place for when such things happen.

I agree that it is a touchy situtation, but what do you think would happen if they allow two aggressive dogs to stew in a lobby for an hour and then they attacked another dog, person, etc. that was in there innocently waiting - there weren't many places the other patients could go.  I am not sue happy by any means, but I would definitely hold the vet responsible for this!  Like I said before, they could have ushered them into a room etc.  They knew these dogs and how aggressive they were - she admitted to me on the phone they had issues with them before yet did nothing for an hour.

The owners did have one of the dogs muzzled when they brought him in; however, he took off the muzzle since it appeared the dog was straining.  It was 90+ degrees yesterday and the clinic was less than comfortable.

calliecritturs

GOOD FOR YOU -- on **SO** many levels!!

Thanks Callie, I appreciate it.  Personally, I wish I could have just left and not had to deal with it (I try to avoid conflict) - I keep kicking myself for having to bring Riley but there was no way around it.  Oh well. 

I am writing a letter to the actual vet today.  I have a feeling the vet tech that I spoke with last night is just going to brush off my phone call.  Maybe it will make a difference for someone else.

     Wow, what an absolute nightmare! Bunch of winners in that entire clinic @@

     Whenever I go to the Vet, 9 times out of 10, there are one or more aggro dogs waiting to be vetted. Depending on which clinic I go to, sometimes there is literally a congregation of pet owners outside the clinic! It's understood by the *owners* that the rightful place of the viciouus dogs are outside - inside is for the smaller dogs, pups, cats, and otherwise friendly animals. When I had my Shepherd, she was always muzzled and either at the far corner of the Vet's office if it was empty or near empty. But if other dogs started coming in, out she went. I can't ever imagine being so rude as to impose two large, rowdy, uncontrollable dogs in a Vet's office with other dogs and kids! If I was in the office while those dogs were opening the doors, I would have FREAKED!

     Hope you never have to go through an experience like that ever again ...

 Another thought I just had about my own vet experience. I don't think there have EVER been two animals in the waiting room at one time. I always take my dogs in together, they are a handful but usually their are two of us, and my dogs do listen. Whenever I come in one of the techs offers to help, and with the one exception I noted I don't think I have encountered another dog.

And some vet clinics simply don't want to deal with assertive/aggressive dogs.  When Heidi was 3 months old, the vet I was seeing at the time told me I was going to have to "get that dog under control, if I wanted to continue coming there" when we were there one time.  She was barking at other dogs in the waiting area (not even aggresively, more excited than ugly)...I had the puppy under control, but the pup's barking made the vet & vet tech uncomfortable.  BTW...we were in that waiting room for close to an hour as well (poor Heidi was bored stiff).  Then another 1/2 hour in the exam room.  Good grief!   I found another vet.

The current vet I see does an excellent job of managing the traffic in the waiting rooms and the exam rooms.  All of them are on top of who is where and anticipating when patients will be moving through.  I've never waited more than 5 minutes max in the waiting room with any of my dogs.  And, the nanosecond they hear a ruckus in the waiting room...someone is out there ready to take a dog back to either an exam room or a run, or whatever.  Once Heidi started barking at a dog...and they didn't even give me a chance to correct her...they just whisked me back.  Good yes...but I would have liked the opportunity to tell Heidi "No" so she would learn that was unacceptable behavior.  I understand why, though...they are looking out for all involved, the other patients, themselves, etc.

I am so sorry you had that experience mrstjohnson.  I know that was very scary.  Those owners should never have brought both of their AA dogs in at the same time; and/or they should have muzzled them first.  They are ignorant (not being ugly, just saying they don't have a clue).

At least one of the three of you had fun with the comotion.   

Geez. I agree that each situation is different, but SOMEBODY should have taken some sort of responsibility for that! My dog does best if I stay with her, and I'm the one restraining her. Over the years, I've developed relationships with several different vets, who know what I do for a living. They allow me to restrain my dog, muzzled or not. I do bring a basket muzzle for her, in case she needs it.  If they take her away, things get loud, ugly, and very messy. Ew.

I agree that it is a touchy situtation, but what do you think would happen if they allow two aggressive dogs to stew in a lobby for an hour and then they attacked another dog, person, etc. that was in there innocently waiting - there weren't many places the other patients could go.  I am not sue happy by any means, but I would definitely hold the vet responsible for this!

Like I said, I agree that something should have been done immediately upon arrival - having the two dogs just thrashing about in the room is unacceptable. I was more speaking in general terms about aggressive and reactive dogs in clinics, and how sometimes making a judgement call about who should hold, who should take the dog back, how the dog should be managed for the procedures can be tough, because some owners are extremely uptight about such things and you run the risk of losing clients and legal issues raising their ugly heads (yes, it's true, I know a vet who was sued because an owner insisted on holding her aggressive dog for a shot, the dog proceeded to thrash and fell off the table and broke it's foot - and the owners won). However, in this instance there is no question that the dogs should have been removed and placed in a specific area. 

You know how at hospitals they have "sick" areas and "well" areas? Maybe they should have a couple small, individual "time-out" areas for reactive dogs while they get ready to be seen. That would probably help lower the crazy tone of the waiting area considerably. 

willowchow

  For example, my dog is MUCH better if they take her from me to examine her.  Is that my preference? No, but if that's what gets the job done then so be it.  

The dog I had before Max was EXACTLY like this.  I remember one time at the vet he was jumping and snarling and carrying on like he was suffering the tortures of the damned.  Three techs were trying to wrestle with him and he was only about 30 lbs.  Finally I told the tech that he'd behave much better if I wasn't there and I went outside the door.  He settled right down and became very quiet and submissive and I heard one of the techs say "OMG, she was right." Like Lori, I would have much preferred to be in there, but with Bud it just wasn't possible.  Max, on the other hand, is fine with me there.

Joyce

whtsthfrequency

Technically, we are told to never, ever allow an owner to restrain their dog while we are examining them.

Of course, I would never sue a vet for something that was my fault, or MY dog biting ME (moot point, because Cherokee's muzzled at the vet..from the time we get out of the car, to when we get back in). Do people really do that??

the vet's office should have done something, and so should the owners!  that is just AWLFUL!!  I have a VERY submissive dog, and if that would happen, OMG!  I would be so upset!  Esp. since CoCo would probably pee all over herself!

The last time we were at the vet's, there was an aggressive shepherd there, but the owner was VERY good with him!  The vet office saw him right away, and the owner took him in muzzled, and as soon as the exam was over, took him out and left him in the car, and came back and paid for the bill...CoCo hid behind my legs when the GSD walked by, and as soon as the GSD walked out the door, she BARKED at him once... it was hilarious and everyone was laughing.... What a wuss... lol

mrstjohnson

I am writing a letter to the actual vet today.  I have a feeling the vet tech that I spoke with last night is just going to brush off my phone call.  Maybe it will make a difference for someone else.

That's ANOTHER atta boy to you!!  Send it *certified* return receipt requested and put "Personal and Confidential" on it AND send it regular mail (both).  AT the top of the letter also put "Sent via US Regular and Certified Mail" (this is the legal secretary in me talking).

ON the envelope color highlight the words "Personal and Confidential".  That should get it past reception into the vet's hands directly.  Most office staff won't open something marked like that, particularly if they have to sign for it.  If you just send a letter it's likely never to make it past the front desk or it will get buried.

The vet "knew" but didn't tune in.  The vet could have been in SUCH trouble if ... in one of those times the door burst open, your child had been bitten.  It should make his blood run cold to get a letter like that.  He could lose his entire practice in a fiasco like that.  And he SHOULD worry.

Essentially, those dogs should have been hustled to a waiting room as soon as they walked in the door ... one with a muzzle on.  Particularly if they were recognized.  But the first SIGN of aggression should have gotten them quarantined.  So what if they had to 'wait' forever ... but they should have been separated off IMMEDIATELY. 

Any issues with the staff and vet and muzzles -- that's between the vet and the owner and his own interpretation of insurance laws and regulations, but no way should other people and their dogs have been put in an explosive situation like that -- particularly not where they had to cross in front of the dogs to go to a room.  That's just plain a recipe for disaster ANY way you look at it.

calliecritturs

The vet "knew" but didn't tune in.  The vet could have been in SUCH trouble if ... in one of those times the door burst open, your child had been bitten.  It should make his blood run cold to get a letter like that.  He could lose his entire practice in a fiasco like that.  And he SHOULD worry.

You know what, no wonder he looked pale when he stepped into the exam office.  He probably heard the dogs, saw Riley and his blood went cold.  No wonder he had them move before we left.  I am going to definitely mark the envelope and send it like you suggested.  I was worried about the staff opening it and him never getting it so that should work!  Thanks!